SDI: Advanced Adventure vs Advanced Scuba

[fire_diver]

Okay.... but my SDI OW cert will be considered the same as a PADI OW cert, right? So, what if I switch to PADI now, for future training? Are you saying that if I get the PADI AOW (which only requires 5 more dives) I would then be okay to do "advanced only" dives?


But not if I stay with SDI and get the Advanced Adventure Diver (which would also be 5 more dives)?

Or, to ask it a different way, if I switch to PADI courses now, what certification are you saying that I would need in order to go on "advanced only" dives?

That is what he is trying to say, but it's not true. You will be fine with either a PADI AOW or an SDI AAD card.

 

[stuartv]

That is what he is trying to say, but it's not true. You will be fine with either a PADI AOW or an SDI AAD card.

Thanks, fire_diver. That's kind of what I was thinking. Plus, I imagine it will be somewhat of a case-by-case basis. One dive might be listed as "advanced only" where the dive op just wants the PADI AOW or equivalent to weed out the people who have just finished their OW class and virtually nothing more. And then there may be other, more difficult dives where the op requires "advanced only" and they really are going to want to see 25 or more dives in the log book plus certain specific specialty certs.


So, 2 new questions:

- For Advanced Scuba Diver or Master Scuba diver, where they require 25 or 50 logged dives, do the 4 OW training dives count towards that total? I'm guessing they do, but I just want to make sure.

- If I take the Advanced Buoyancy Control specialty class and get that cert and if all the diving for that is done in a pool, do I log them in my logbook and then they count towards the 25 or 50? Or do "dives" in a pool not get logged and not count towards the 25 or 50? Or is this moot because ABC does not get done in a pool?

 

[CptTightPants21]

That is what he is trying to say, but it's not true. You will be fine with either a PADI AOW or an SDI AAD card.

Bull****! Here in the NE, I know of several boat charters that require advanced certification and more than 25 dives to do the deeper wrecks. For most agencies that 25 dives is implied in the "advanced certification", but PADI is "special" and probably why the 25 dive rule was invented. Try diving the San Diego with 10 dives and a PADI advanced cert and see what the captain says.

Stuart, there is no reason to switch agencies. The easiest thing is to be honest with the boat captain about your experience level in terms of number of dives and/or specialties (don't use card names, just facts like # of dives, where, what conditions, and what training you have taken).

If you are vacationing in the caribbean, they most likely will not require advanced certification because they get so many resort divers in the first place and have DM guided tours. The standards on vacation in the caribbean are much more relaxed and just an OW card will get you pretty much everything you want. The advanced certification is a thing on boats in the US, where a lot of them don't have DM led tours and you are very much on your own.

---------- Post added November 5th, 2014 at 10:08 AM ----------

Thanks, fire_diver. That's kind of what I was thinking. Plus, I imagine it will be somewhat of a case-by-case basis. One dive might be listed as "advanced only" where the dive op just wants the PADI AOW or equivalent to weed out the people who have just finished their OW class and virtually nothing more. And then there may be other, more difficult dives where the op requires "advanced only" and they really are going to want to see 25 or more dives in the log book plus certain specific specialty certs.


So, 2 new questions:

- For Advanced Scuba Diver or Master Scuba diver, where they require 25 or 50 logged dives, do the 4 OW training dives count towards that total? I'm guessing they do, but I just want to make sure.

- If I take the Advanced Buoyancy Control specialty class and get that cert and if all the diving for that is done in a pool, do I log them in my logbook and then they count towards the 25 or 50? Or do "dives" in a pool not get logged and not count towards the 25 or 50? Or is this moot because ABC does not get done in a pool?

4 OW dives count.

Dives in a pool do not. Same reason you need actual OW dives to get certified.

Advanced Buoyancy shouldn't be conducted in a pool, and I would demand they take me to some OW environment. The course is really about learning how to task load and task loading implies dealing with full dive gear, cold, limited vis, etc.

 

[stuartv]

Bull****! Here in the NE, I know of several boat charters that require advanced certification and more than 25 dives to do the deeper wrecks. For most agencies that 25 dives is implied in the "advanced certification", but PADI is "special" and probably why the 25 dive rule was invented. Try diving the San Diego with 10 dives and a PADI advanced cert and see what the captain says.

Stuart, there is no reason to switch agencies. The easiest thing is to be honest with the boat captain about your experience level in terms of number of dives and/or specialties (don't use card names, just facts like # of dives, where, what conditions, and what training you have taken).

If you are vacationing in the caribbean, they most likely will not require advanced certification because they get so many resort divers in the first place and have DM guided tours. The standards on vacation in the caribbean are much more relaxed and just an OW card will get you pretty much everything you want. The advanced certification is a thing on boats in the US, where a lot of them don't have DM led tours and you are very much on your own.

---------- Post added November 5th, 2014 at 10:08 AM ----------




4 OW dives count.

Dives in a pool do not. Same reason you need actual OW dives to get certified.

Advanced Buoyancy shouldn't be conducted in a pool, and I would demand they take me to some OW environment. The course is really about learning how to task load and task loading implies dealing with full dive gear, cold, limited vis, etc.

Thanks, Cpt.

I don't think there's any need to get testy with fire_diver. I specified several times that I was talking about vacation resort diving. And I think what fire_diver is saying is that for those kind of dives, if they say "advanced required", they are probably going to accept PADI AOW. And if they do, SDI AAD will also be accepted. And if they don't, then SDI AAD is not going to be accepted, either.

IOW, as fire_diver said, it sounds like, for vacation resort diving, AOW and AAD are recognized equally and will most likely be all I need - for vacation resort dives that want "advanced".

I understand what you're saying about boat dives here in the U.S.. And, of course I would always be completely open and honest with the dive op about the details of my experience. I definitely do not want to get accepted and taken on a dive based on incorrect expectations about my experience and then get into trouble because I've attempted something I'm not ready for!

 

[CptTightPants21]

Thanks, Cpt.

I don't think there's any need to get testy with fire_diver. I specified several times that I was talking about vacation resort diving. And I think what fire_diver is saying is that for those kind of dives, if they say "advanced required", they are probably going to accept PADI AOW. And if they do, SDI AAD will also be accepted. And if they don't, then SDI AAD is not going to be accepted, either.

IOW, as fire_diver said, it sounds like, for vacation resort diving, AOW and AAD are recognized equally and will most likely be all I need - for vacation resort dives that want "advanced".

I understand what you're saying about boat dives here in the U.S.. And, of course I would always be completely open and honest with the dive op about the details of my experience. I definitely do not want to get accepted and taken on a dive based on incorrect expectations about my experience and then get into trouble because I've attempted something I'm not ready for!

No problem and I am glad that we got this settled.

Just so I don't look like a complete raving lunatic, you never made it clear you were talking about vacation diving. You used the word "Resort and boat ops" on the first page in a very long post without specifying tropical water and only mentioned "vacation diving" on the 2nd page, which I responded to about Caribbean diving. You are new and I get that, but there is a world of difference between caribbean diving and diving in the US. Everything I said about advanced cert stands, it just means that you really won't need it in the Caribbean as I know operators who take people down to 90ft wrecks with 10 dives under their belt.

 

[stuartv]

Gotcha, and it was definitely my bad for not being more clear. In my mind, I thought resort diving pretty much automatically implied "vacation". Anyway, I'm clear now.

Well, except that I still don't know for sure if I should bother with SDI Advanced Adventure Diver. It does seem like a bit of a racket to just let you "sample" different specialties and make the LDS more money. OTOH, if all 5 dives count towards the required dives for each of the specialties, then maybe it's not really a waste of money after all. And it gives me one simple card to present to the Caribbean dive operators who may ask for "advanced".

I guess it's somewhat moot right this minute. I'm taking Computer Nitrox next week. And I'm going to take Advanced Buoyancy as soon as I can. Hopefully, before I go to Riviera Maya in December. From what others (like TSandM) have said, that should really help with the cenote dives I'd like to do.

 

[World HQ SDI/TDI/ERDI]

Stuart,

It's fantastic to see your enthusiasm as a new diver, and you're asking all of the right questions. There have been some great responses in this thread already, and it seems most of your questions have been answered.We understand all of the information out there can be a bit confusing and make it difficult to chose your path.There's a few things we would like to clarify for you so you can make the most informed decisions about future training.

First of all, a little history on how SDI standards are written. We write MINIMUM requirements that must be met in order for an instructor to issue a certification.This applies to prerequisites, course materials, and certification requirements (skills, number of dives, etc.).The end goal for any of our courses is the training and education that the student is provided, not necessarily the certification card.Certain environments, teaching styles, and individual students may require additional content to ensure the subject is adequately covered, and it is the instructor's discretion to add any requirements they see fit. This is why you may see conflicting information on our site vs. what the instructor is requiring.At the end of the day, the best source for this type of information is the instructor or facility you are wishing to train with.They will be able to assist you in putting together a training path that best fits your goals and interests.

Next up, how operators an facilities interpret and accept different agency certifications. This is completely up to the individual operator/facility based on the diving activities they offer.Training is environment/condition specific, and while someone may have a specialty certification card they may not have the appropriate training and experience to conduct specific dives.For example, someone who takes a wreck diver course and all of their diving experience is in crystal clear water from shore in the Caribbean does not have the appropriate training or experience to conduct a wreck dive in 40 degree black water from a boat in 6 foot seas.The only way to know for sure if you have the training and experience required to make a specific dive with a specific operator is by contacting them directly.I know this doesn't seem to help much when planning out what courses to take, but we suggest identifying what type of diving interests you most and then pursuing training and experience for that type of diving.

The term "advanced" certification is used differently throughout the industry. SDI considers someone an "advanced" diver once they have, at a minimum, logged at least 25 dives and completed 4 specialty courses.If the certifying instructor feels the diver still needs additional training or experience to earn the "SDI Advanced Diver" certification, it is their discretion to require that before certifying the diver.There is not an "SDI Advanced Diver" course, a facility offering a program like this is simply packaging the 4 specialty courses.It is not appropriate to combine dives for specialties.If you are taking 4 specialty courses, which each require 2 dives, you will have to do a minimum of 8 dives.Many of the skills may overlap from one specialty dive to another, however the minimum number of dives will need to be met for each specialty.Again, the training and experience is the end goal, not the certification card.

The "SDI Advanced Adventure Diver" is a specialty designed specifically to introduce new divers to several different areas of training that they may be interested in. This specialty can be credited to the "SDI Advanced Diver" certification and the dives completed may be credited towards the individual specialty courses at the instructor's discretion.If you know exactly what specialty courses you are interested in taking, it is not required by SDI standards to take the Advanced Adventure Diver course.

I hope this answers your questions, and good luck with your Computer Nitrox course next week!

Safe Diving,
Jon Kieren
Training and Member Services

 

[RJP]

You are absolutely wrong. The AAD card is EXACTLY equivalent to the AOW card.

Assuming they were issued by exactly equivalent instructors.

:d

---------- Post added November 5th, 2014 at 02:10 PM ----------

And it gives me one simple card to present to the Caribbean dive operators who may ask for "advanced".

I have yet to come across a Caribbean dive operator who has asked for more than an OW card, a signed waiver, and a method of payment.

PS - you'll still need two cards if you want to dive EANx.

 

[stuartv]

Stuart,

It's fantastic to see your enthusiasm as a new diver, and you're asking all of the right questions.

...

I hope this answers your questions, and good luck with your Computer Nitrox course next week!

Safe Diving,
Jon Kieren
Training and Member Services

Thanks, Jon!

There is still one question nobody has answered:

1) ASDDP says: "Complete four SDI Specialty Diver courses or equivalent; only 1 course without dives, may be credited towards the SDI Advanced Diver development program, with the exception of SDI Computer Nitrox"

The exception part of that sentence is very confusing. Computer Nitrox is a course without dives. So, does the exception clause mean that it counts as a specialty and I could still take one more specialty course without a dive as credit towards ASDDP? Or does it mean that Nitrox doesn't count for any of the specialties required for ASDDP at all? So, even with Nitrox, I still need 4 additional specialty courses - one of which could be a course without dives?

I would sure appreciate it if you could clear that up.

 

[RJP]

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