That depends totally on the completeness of the initial course, it could possibly be that there is nothing left to do, and free is a great price for nothing.
3-Day Open Water Certification?
- Thread starter enohla
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I can only comment from my own personal experience, both as a student, and as a divemaster for the past several years, working with quite a few OW classes.
MOST people can master the "skills" fairly quickly. Assuming you have no anxiety about being in the water, and quickly grasp airway control, the "skills" present little challenge. Almost all of them can be done in contact with the bottom, which makes you stable. But mastering the "skills" is kind of like collecting all the ingredients for a cake. When you are done, you have a lot of ingredients, but you don't have a cake . . . or a diver. Being a diver means being able to manage most of those skills WHILE DIVING -- while neutral, and without corking or getting hopelessly disoriented. It takes time and repetition to get there. The way our OW class is organized, we a) have an Olympic sized swimming pool in which to dive, and b) arrange the instruction so that no more than two students are EVER involved in the demonstration of skills to an instructor. The rest are swimming (diving), and they are fair game for the CAs to swim up and say, "mask flood and clear!", which they are to perform in the water column. Add the fact that we have six sessions over a 3 week period, and students get a TON of practice, both with the "skills", and with the basic ingredient of diving, which is buoyancy control.
You could do a lot of those things in a single day confined water session, but what you couldn't do is avoid the profound fatigue that people feel when they have spent six or eight hours constantly trying to absorb something new, or the fatigue that comes with being in water and getting cold (which happens even in swimming pools!). I know, from having taken way too many diving courses with 14 hour days, that I am not learning well at the end of them, and that the fatigue is cumulative, so if I run a marathon on Friday, I'm going to be a tired student for Saturday and Sunday's OW dives, too.
I understand the imperative at resorts, where people are only there for a few days, and everything has to be done as fast as possible. I don't condone or approve of it, but I understand it. But why someone would choose this kind of class to take near their own home baffles me. I would not have done a GUE open water class as an aspiring diver, but I didn't opt for one of the three or four day programs locally, either.
MOST people can master the "skills" fairly quickly. Assuming you have no anxiety about being in the water, and quickly grasp airway control, the "skills" present little challenge. Almost all of them can be done in contact with the bottom, which makes you stable. But mastering the "skills" is kind of like collecting all the ingredients for a cake. When you are done, you have a lot of ingredients, but you don't have a cake . . . or a diver. Being a diver means being able to manage most of those skills WHILE DIVING -- while neutral, and without corking or getting hopelessly disoriented. It takes time and repetition to get there. The way our OW class is organized, we a) have an Olympic sized swimming pool in which to dive, and b) arrange the instruction so that no more than two students are EVER involved in the demonstration of skills to an instructor. The rest are swimming (diving), and they are fair game for the CAs to swim up and say, "mask flood and clear!", which they are to perform in the water column. Add the fact that we have six sessions over a 3 week period, and students get a TON of practice, both with the "skills", and with the basic ingredient of diving, which is buoyancy control.
You could do a lot of those things in a single day confined water session, but what you couldn't do is avoid the profound fatigue that people feel when they have spent six or eight hours constantly trying to absorb something new, or the fatigue that comes with being in water and getting cold (which happens even in swimming pools!). I know, from having taken way too many diving courses with 14 hour days, that I am not learning well at the end of them, and that the fatigue is cumulative, so if I run a marathon on Friday, I'm going to be a tired student for Saturday and Sunday's OW dives, too.
I understand the imperative at resorts, where people are only there for a few days, and everything has to be done as fast as possible. I don't condone or approve of it, but I understand it. But why someone would choose this kind of class to take near their own home baffles me. I would not have done a GUE open water class as an aspiring diver, but I didn't opt for one of the three or four day programs locally, either.
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I score only two out of three on that list. I definitely know how to set up my gear, and except for a handful of warm-water vacation dives, I've planned every frikkin' dive I've done. But please, please don't ask me to determine how much weight I'm gonna need if I'm diving with a 3 mil shorty or a 7 mil hoodie + farmer John, or with an Al80 instead of a 15L 200bar or 10L 300 bar steel (granted, give me my PC and the buoyancy characteristics of that Al80, and I'd probably be able to come up with a decent educated SWAG). Ask me what I need with my current DS and undergarments, I can tell you in a second. Ask me what I need with a five mil WS, I'll check my logbook. Anything else, and I just wouldn't know, and would have to break out my dusty OW book to give you a number at all. I'd probably just ask my guide for a number, though.
Does that mean I shouldn't be out there?
Haha, 24 hours of pool time? Exactly how much are students paying or instructors charging for a course that includes 24 hours of pool time? An 8 week dive class? How much are students paying and instructors charging for 8 weeks of class? Jezz, I wouldn't be diving now if I had to do months of training before being certified. Some of you guys need to get a grip. Just because maybe you took 8+ weeks to learn doesn't mean anyone that does it in a few days is an unsafe or bad diver, or that it's a poor program.
I don't doubt that taking 8 weeks / 24 hours of pool helps many to be more confident and comfortable in the water and increases their knowledge. The fact remains that a large percentage of customers can't or don't want to dedicate that amount of time towards getting certified. In the market areas that I have worked in, most dive shops wouldn't be able to survive if they only conducted dive courses that took that long and cost that much. A customer would simply drive down the street and take a class that costs less and took less time with a different dive shop.
One of my most difficult students was a college student who took a semester class of scuba diving and came to me as a referral for open water check out dives, so some of you guys will never convince me that more time is always the key to creating the perfect learning environment.
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There is no question that if you use good teaching technique and teach a person for longer and longer periods of time you will get a better diver. The question to ask is if that is necessary to serve the purpose of the class. I said something like this before. If I create a new agency that requires 60 hours of pool work, two full semesters of college level academic preparation, and 30 OW dives to get certification, I guarantee that the OW divers we produce (if any) will be better than any OW divers produced by any other agency in the world. Can I then look down on them for producing inferior divers, or can they look at me like some sort of a crazed idiot?
A properly designed educational program has enough time and effort devoted to the class to accomplish the goals for that level of instruction. It doesn't have too little time, and it doesn't require more than is necessary.
I agree with you 100% John...
I would love to teach a 2 month scuba class. Unfortunately I don't think anyone would want to pay me what I would have to charge for that!
Storker, Jim isn't saying you have to know how much weight you need for every combination, I don't think. He's saying you should know how to DETERMINE that, once you get where you are going.
I got interested in diving thanks to a briefing Rick Murcar gave while we were serving in Afghanistan in 2011 and had set up an OW course in Cyprus while guys were funnelling through on their decompression leave (He didn't instruct, but planted the seed that got me hooked). We were only in Cyprus for 5 days, with no diving on the last day since we had to fly that left with me with 3 days to compete O/W training. I did the PADI online theory while deployed so when I showed up in Cyprus it was a review test to check my knowledge then into the water. Me and the other guy on the course had no issues with skills and were extremely comfortable in the water. It made for some early mornings and long days but that's something we were obviously used to. In the end we completed everything and were certified. Since becoming a DM and assisting with O/W training it's not something I would recommend to most people but it can be done.
A note on the online class: I had no choice but to do it that way since time in Cyprus was limited, I much prefer to do things via a classroom but I found it was easy to understand, the videos were well done and I had no issue absorbing and understanding the information.
I'm an SDI DM, I only mention this so people don't think I'm trying to promote PADI because I'm affiliated with them.
A note on the online class: I had no choice but to do it that way since time in Cyprus was limited, I much prefer to do things via a classroom but I found it was easy to understand, the videos were well done and I had no issue absorbing and understanding the information.
I'm an SDI DM, I only mention this so people don't think I'm trying to promote PADI because I'm affiliated with them.
ScubaSteve1962
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Is the problem really with the amount of time spent in training, or the fact that there are people who will only dive once a year. I just returned from a trip with a group of around 60 divers, some of these people have been diving for years, have all sorts of certs. But you couldn't tell it by the way they were in the water due to the fact that this is the only time they dive.
flots am
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I don't get involved with the money, but it's about the same price as the 3 day class at one of the other shops in the area.
Some do and it's really their choice. It depends on whether the goal is to dive locally all year, or once every year or two on vacation.
Around here the water is cold and "great vis" might be 30' and it's drysuit-season all year except maybe for August and there's nobody diving with you except your buddy. Being safe, competent and happy takes more time.
If the goal is to just drop off a boat into 80 degree water with 100' vis and follow the DM, then a 3 day class is probably enough, assuming the DM is competent and nothing bad happens.
FWIW, the longer class is pretty much as useless as the shorter class for people who only dive every few years. The ability to properly execute the skills, and especially the emergency procedures, evaporates quickly. After a couple of years with no practice, it's little more than a vague memory.
flots.
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