Article on Death In Ginnie Springs

[Stoo]

What does civil litigation have to do with criminal investigation?

Well, one frequently follows the other for starters...

---------- Post added February 2nd, 2015 at 08:58 PM ----------

My understanding (maybe I'm wrong) is that the purpose of a police investigation is to determine who's to blame, not to determine the ultimate root cause of an accident...

This is kinda the point i was trying to make earlier. Police investigate "crimes". At such time as they determine that no crime has taken place (to their satisfaction, and probably not always correctly), they pack up their bags and go home.

In the case we are discussing, there was some pretty compelling evidence... eye witnesses, gas analysis by someone widely recognized as being highly competent, no apparent motive for someone to "off" the victim, and so on... that was nothing more than an unfortunate accident brought on by some combination of carelessness and perhaps a little hubris. In an ideal world, every death would be thoroughly investigated, but I'm sure that the old cost/benefit analysis plays a big part in the decision to investigate more thoroughly.

 

[Six Feet Under]

This is kinda the point i was trying to make earlier. Police investigate "crimes". At such time as they determine that no crime has taken place (to their satisfaction, and probably not always correctly), they pack up their bags and go home.

In the case we are discussing, there was some pretty compelling evidence... eye witnesses, gas analysis by someone widely recognized as being highly competent, no apparent motive for someone to "off" the victim, and so on... that was nothing more than an unfortunate accident brought on by some combination of carelessness and perhaps a little hubris. In an ideal world, every death would be thoroughly investigated, but I'm sure that the old cost/benefit analysis plays a big part in the decision to investigate more thoroughly.

Finally, someone with logic and some understanding of the subject

 

[hroark2112]

To the OP...here's an honest question...

Given that the gas was analyzed to be 98% O2 at the scene by someone trained and competent with an Oxygen analyzer, what would you expect a lab to look for when they analyzed the bottle in your scenario? What would you expect the police to investigate beyond taking witness statements, observing the on-scene analysis of the gas, and reading the doctor's reports after they were completed?

I'm just not sure there is much else that could be done in the investigation that would be fruitful and wouldn't be a waste of police manpower. There are actual crimes to be investigated, residents to be "served and protected" and the occasional jackass to be tasered. What exactly would you like to have seen done?

Please don't be vague...."more thorough" is not the answer I'm looking for here.

 

[Stoo]

Finally, someone with logic and some understanding of the subject

Since Carlos was a friend, this accident struck pretty close to home. We are "all" still puzzled as to why Carlos, who by all accounts was a careful diver, made such a fundamental error. It was not something that we would have expected him to do. Perhaps he was rushed to get ready, or otherwise distracted.

The take-away is certainly that anyone can screw up. While Carlos wasn't a "super-experienced" diver, he had done a bunch of training and the resultant dives. Some have dismissed him as another "zero to hero" and to many, this accident came as no surprise. I almost fell into this camp, but predicted that it was more likely that one of Carlos' buddies was going to be the one who had the "issue". The nature of his personality was that he was a strong leader and motivator and encouraged younger divers to push their limits. To Carlos, everything was a "push", an "expedition"... he didn't seem to be able to just "go diving". It was almost like it was a competitive sport. This same misguided approach was assumed by some of these "Carlos Jr." types.

Anyway, he was a good guy, and many miss his "larger than life" personality. Hopefully, his legacy will be that gas testing isn't something that gets done "sometimes." And that diving and complacency can't co-exist.

 

[HIGHwing]

Hopefully, his legacy will be that gas testing isn't something that gets done "sometimes." And that diving and complacency can't co-exist.

As I said earlier in this thread, after Carlos' accident I realized the one way to guarantee I would not shortcut analyzing gas was to rip the labels off bottles soon after I'm out of the water. This simple procedure forces me to analyze and label all the gas every time. I'll credit my behavorial/procedure change to Carlos' accident.

 

[Storker]

In the case we are discussing, there was some pretty compelling evidence... eye witnesses, gas analysis by someone widely recognized as being highly competent, no apparent motive for someone to "off" the victim, and so on... that was nothing more than an unfortunate accident brought on by some combination of carelessness and perhaps a little hubris. In an ideal world, every death would be thoroughly investigated, but I'm sure that the old cost/benefit analysis plays a big part in the decision to investigate more thoroughly.

To borrow Gian's corpse-with-a-gun-in-hand simile:

Someone takes out a gun, refuses to check whether it's loaded or not even though his buddies asks him to, plays a bit of Russian roulette, is rushed to the hospital with a gunshot to the head and later dies. The police files the case as an obvious accident caused by gross negligence on the victim's side. BUT THERE NEVER WAS A PROPER INVESTIGATION!!!!111!!!!OMG!!!!111!!!

 

[Akimbo]

… Someone takes out a gun, refuses to check whether it's loaded or not even though his buddies asks him to, plays a bit of Russian roulette, …

Agreed, unless the gun used was an automatic. Then the police should hunt down Charles Darwin so we can thank him properly.

 

[gianaameri]

To borrow Gian's corpse-with-a-gun-in-hand simile:

Someone takes out a gun, refuses to check whether it's loaded or not even though his buddies asks him to, plays a bit of Russian roulette, is rushed to the hospital with a gunshot to the head and later dies. The police files the case as an obvious accident caused by gross negligence on the victim's side. BUT THERE NEVER WAS A PROPER INVESTIGATION!!!!111!!!!OMG!!!!111!!!

To continue on the analogy (and to be clear I honestly believe the Carlos incident was user/team error), say the Police follows proper procedure and secures the scene of the "accident" and forensics is run and it turns out that there is no powder residue on the hands of the alleged idiot who shot himself - despite all present at the scene agreeing to the same story

 

[Lorenzoid]

To continue on the analogy (and to be clear I honestly believe the Carlos incident was user/team error), say the Police follows proper procedure and secures the scene of the "accident" and forensics is run and it turns out that there is no powder residue on the hands of the alleged idiot who shot himself - despite all present at the scene agreeing to the same story

In that instance, I would grab a beer and return after the TV commercial to watch our hero detective solve the mystery. In real life, it's pretty unlikely that the forensics results would be the first thing that raises suspicion that it wasn't an accident. Police are pretty good at judging people's truthfulness and whether their various stories jibe with each other.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

After wading through 22 pages of silt maybe the thread should have been (and I did not know Carlos): To all fellow divers please understand that we lost a fellow diver and a friend about a year ago. We would like to reflect not upon his death but for the drive and passion he had toward diving. He will be greatly missed by many of us. Let’s please celebrate his life by taking the time to learning from him and analyzing your tanks so that you may continue to push farther that Carlos left off. Please don’t forget to say a prayer for his family and friends left behind.