Being pushed into buying gear - Is this normal?

[danvolker]

If the Dive shop the OP was talking about, had the right personalities, and the right policies, his post would never have been made.
There are an awful lot of Dive shops that are struggling to get by, and part of this is how hard the market is to be profitable....and another large part is how INFREQUENT it is, to find a Dive shop that has everything you need AND is fun to be in--that has people working in it, that are fun to hang around before or after diving.....In Palm Beach, we have one shop that literally blows all others away in having everything you need, and in being ..." Fun"...

Welcome to Force E, Riviera
[video=youtube_share;FwVZrfLnr7w]http://youtu.be/FwVZrfLnr7w[/video]

If you ever go into this shop, you will see that this is not all that far from how they actually act...they have fun every day, and many divers go there and enjoy the personalities of the guys that work here. If you have never met these characters, the video won't make all that much sense to you.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

So, in your opinion, it is OK for a shop to deceive new divers!!!

Where is the deception?

 

[oly5050user]

Dive shop where I did my lessons gives free lessons and pool time as long as you own your gear if you buy a complete set excluding wetsuit from them. Is this pushing the gear?

We petty much do the same thing..pay. For your course. If you purchase regulator,bcd,computer monies paid for course goes towards purchase of gear. Works out to be a free course.

 

[kelemvor]

If the Dive shop the OP was talking about, had the right personalities, and the right policies, his post would never have been made.
There are an awful lot of Dive shops that are struggling to get by, and part of this is how hard the market is to be profitable....and another large part is how INFREQUENT it is, to find a Dive shop that has everything you need AND is fun to be in--that has people working in it, that are fun to hang around before or after diving.....In Palm Beach, we have one shop that literally blows all others away in having everything you need, and in being ..." Fun"...

Welcome to Force E, Riviera

Those guys are all right for sure. I like my local shop better, but when I'm on the east coast I go to Force-E.

 

[redacted]

Where is the deception?

The shop's statement "What is more important is that industry statistics are pretty clear on this topic: divers who learn with their own dive gear tend to keep on diving for the rest of their life. Meanwhile, divers who learn with 'rental gear' tend to... Never dive again!" is deceptive at best. I suspect the truth is there are no such industry statistics and it is simply a lie.

 

[kafkaland]

The shop's statement "What is more important is that industry statistics are pretty clear on this topic: divers who learn with their own dive gear tend to keep on diving for the rest of their life. Meanwhile, divers who learn with 'rental gear' tend to... Never dive again!" is deceptive at best. I suspect the truth is there are no such industry statistics and it is simply a lie.

My problem with the statement, assuming it's technically true (I.e., a larger fraction of people who train in their own gear as opposed to rental gear still dive x years later), is that it implies a causation, not just a correlation. Implicitly, they are saying: buy your own gear and you'll love the OW course, rent gear for it and you'll hate it so much that you'll never dive again, because of the gear. Other explanations for the correlation between owning gear and diving again may be that only those who are very motivated and sure the'll love it, and feel confident about selecting gear buy their own gear for OW, as in perhaps the spouse of a diver who is getting into it as well. On the other hand, if someone is unsure whether diving is for them, they will not, and should not, buy gear right away. And such a person is much more likely to drop out.

So so for me the deceptive part is the inplied causation, as if spending money on gear can somehow make you like diving more.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

The shop's statement "What is more important is that industry statistics are pretty clear on this topic: divers who learn with their own dive gear tend to keep on diving for the rest of their life. Meanwhile, divers who learn with 'rental gear' tend to... Never dive again!" is deceptive at best. I suspect the truth is there are no such industry statistics and it is simply a lie.

It's just like everybody else trying to make a sale, it's called puffing. as for me I'm glad I had a full set of gear from the start. I have changed mask (had a hard time finding one that didn't leak) and fins (split fins aren't that well in current). Sometimes we seem to forget that the final decision is ours to make no matter what the salesman tells us. I mean unless they're trying to sell some crappy gear, how bad could it be?

 

[redacted]

It's just like everybody else trying to make a sale, it's called puffing. as for me I'm glad I had a full set of gear from the start. I have changed mask (had a hard time finding one that didn't leak) and fins (split fins aren't that well in current). Sometimes we seem to forget that the final decision is ours to make no matter what the salesman tells us. I mean unless they're trying to sell some crappy gear, how bad could it be?

Puffing!!! I had never heard that term applied to marketing. So, I take it that involves making up false data to deceive a customer into buying something. Got it.

The real problem here is we are not just talking a customer but a student. That is someone who is paying the shop to teach them. And they should expect lies.

I guess the student should realize part of what they may be paying for is to have smoke blown up their a$$.

An interesting read: Ethical Marketing

 

[ams511]

Love be it when people use math. Ok, so let's use your number, and on top of that, a 50% margin. For easy math, I'll say the class is 100% profit that's ~$210 in product and 800 in training. Net new OW certifications here in Raleigh, let's be crazy and say 150, $150000 in training revenue alone. Hey I must be rich. Sure, now for taxes, down to $100 k, oh and the $2000. A month rent, now at $76k. Will lump utils, gas, water and operational costs for another $6k, taking it down to $70k. We have stock growth and rental replenishment. Let's be cheap and say $20K to grow the store, hey we're down to $50k, which I have to payout another $15k for the help in it's various forms. Hey, I made $35000 for the year! I'm middle class!

I might almost be able to pay my mortgage, insurance, car, payments and kids braces with that! Now, how do I get from the "national average" (according to DEMA, in one of their meetings last year) of $350 to that wonderful $800 per class !

Has anyone figured out why most of the people investing in Scuba made their money in computers, yet?

Taxes are based on net income not gross, so most of the items you mentioned are expenses which reduce net income. You also mention expenses from rentals but no revenue. Your increase in inventory will be deducted when sold so it is not an expense but an asset. If this is your family's only source of income I would be surprised if you paid more than $5,000 in taxes. You really should take a course at your local small business administration.

---------- Post added February 7th, 2015 at 06:06 PM ----------

Running a dive shop isn't an easy path to riches. It's also not your obligation to fund their lifestyle. However you really can't mail-order your air fills, so don't get too carried away with trying to save a few bucks on gear.

:rofl:. I have not heard this one in a while. Where do most people dive? either in dive parks or off boats, these places usually have compressors. Want to shore dive well you could always join a club with one. The problem with dive shops is they are trying to maintain a pre-internet business model in a post-internet world. Maybe the post internet model is no dive shops with independent instructors, online sales, and air fills / tanks provided by a company that does just that and drops them off in your city.

 

[crabbyfiddler]

Wow. The shop I did my OW cert with gave each student a mask, snorkel, mesh bag and scubapro "introductory" fins. Well...they built the gear into the price of the course. It did make me more inclined to buy more gear and do some upgrading from them. Good customer relations and all.

I would go somewhere else.