Missing person

[InTheDrink]

This probably isn't the right forum for this but mods can move it if they can think of anywhere more appropriate.

My friend's dad went missing 4 months ago in France, where he lived. Car was found (after 3 months!) in car park in the town. The *general* consensus is that he fell into the river running through it, by accident, medical incident or intentional. Police divers have conducted a search with no results.

I wondered whether it would be worthwhile for me (OC but with with lots of gas) and my buddy (CCR) to redo the search. My only concern is that I've never dived a town river and god knows what hazards are in there plus I imagine viz would be shocking. The flip side is that we could spend a lot more time down there than the police divers and with a certain additional level of motivation.

Clearly I don't want to add to casualty list but if there are any ppl familiar with recovery whether this is a reasonable or terrible idea.

There are other *possible* places this man made his demise but it seems most likely that the river is where he is and I'm trying to weigh up whether we'd be an asset of a liability in trying to find him.

Thoughts?

Thx,
John

 

[Ken T]

I am not a public safety diver. My experience is taking x-rays of bodies for ID purposes.

The cases in my local vary, but the following sticks in my mind:

Many of the bodies that are not recovered quickly can end up several to 10s of kilometers downstream.

They are usually found by locals hiking or fishing or farmers/ranchers.

Persons who disappear in the river fall/winter usually surface upon the spring melt.

Spring is the worst time for viz and fast current on the river that runs through my city.

 

[KevinNM]

You might put a note in the public safety diver section of the board and see if anyone there can give some advice.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

A few things to consider: Water temperature is first. Below 40 degrees F a body won't float until it warms up. What was the water temp when he went missing and what is it now? At certain temps there is a delay on decomposition and therefore a delay on being able to float.

Generally where a body goes down is where the body will be. In deep water a body can drift while descending. Width of river and current can factor into things as well. Generally a person entering (falling in) from the shore will be away from the middle. If there is good current look inside of the bends, especially if there is debris there that could hang a body.

If the water is warmer than 40 degrees a boat and a search down river would be best. Are there Water certified Cadaver K-9's available? This is your best option. A day with little to no wind for them will provide the best results. Side-scan sonar and sector scanning sonar is also a great tool if the K-9's alert. K-9's and sonar are probably available. There are many people using sonar these days and Public Safety Volunteer teams around the world have K-9's that are water certified.

If you find a team and there are no alerts, follow it up with at least one more team to verify those results.

My email is diverecoveries at charter dot net if you have other questions. I am currently working on a missing man in a deep mountain lake in Kentucky. In July he will be missing 3 years. I believe, through numerous dives, K-9 alerts and sector scanning sonar, that we will recover this man when we return in May. We have a good target that is 50' from where we last dived. The water temp below 50' is 40 degrees. Our last dives were below 130'.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sout...er-Search-and-Recovery-Group/1438568169746982

Good Luck on your search. Mark Michaud

 

[FinnMom]

You don't want to do that when you are not trained for the task in general, prepared to recover a body that has been down that long and part of a team you know and with whom you have trained. There is a fair chance that what you are considering is not even legal unless you are official volunteer group that has an invitation or at least permission from the the local police. The French have a reputation of being particularly stiff about things like this.

Even if trained and part of a group, I can't easily picture that I would ever be willing to go into a poor-vis river with much current in a sizeable town or city. There will be all kind of stuff thrown in that water, esp. under and near a bridge. Want to extricate yourself from a 1/2-smashed shopping cart in a ripping current and no vis? In a drysuit no less? Currents speed up around barriers like a bridge base and they can darn near rip your mask right off, regulator out etc. That's part of why the better equipped people have full face masks for this work. That kind of work is challenging enough in and of itself, I think at any work with multiple difficulty factors (zero vis, current, entanglement hazzards) can be left to the pros.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

You don't want to do that when you are not trained for the task in general, prepared to recover a body that has been down that long and part of a team you know and with whom you have trained.

A search and a recovery are 2 different things. At this point no one is even searching. If the water is cold, the body will be mostly likely in the condition that it went down. When decomposition sets in the body floats. Upon locating the body can be marked and then, the authorities can complete the recovery. Using dogs and sonar, you can provide the authorities with a reason to dive. The OP may never even need to dive. But at this point, no one is even looking and there is a family that doesn't know where their loved one is.

 

[InTheDrink]

You don't want to do that when you are not trained for the task in general, prepared to recover a body that has been down that long and part of a team you know and with whom you have trained. There is a fair chance that what you are considering is not even legal unless you are official volunteer group that has an invitation or at least permission from the the local police. The French have a reputation of being particularly stiff about things like this.

Even if trained and part of a group, I can't easily picture that I would ever be willing to go into a poor-vis river with much current in a sizeable town or city. There will be all kind of stuff thrown in that water, esp. under and near a bridge. Want to extricate yourself from a 1/2-smashed shopping cart in a ripping current and no vis? In a drysuit no less? Currents speed up around barriers like a bridge base and they can darn near rip your mask right off, regulator out etc. That's part of why the better equipped people have full face masks for this work. That kind of work is challenging enough in and of itself, I think at any work with multiple difficulty factors (zero vis, current, entanglement hazzards) can be left to the pros.

Ha, indeed, shopping trolleys certainly occurred to me. My friend is doing a recce at the end of this month (he has agoraphobia) so it's taken him months to work up the courage to travel overseas to where this river is, so I'll get him to get more local info about the river. I may see if I can contact the detective looking after the case to see what searches on the river have been performed and with what equipment.

My general feeling is that I'd likely be more of a hindrance than a help and that the diving would likely be hazardous but I just am exploring the options at this stage.

Thanks again for the responses.

John

 

[InTheDrink]

post scriptum: my friend's dad was found (allegedly) murdered in his next door neighbour's well.

There is a lesson there: Sometimes the obvious and nearest places are where you should start looking. The river seemed like the most obvious place as that's where the car was found but in actuality a search of neighbours gardens would have yielded a less ghastly and more expeditious result.

Glad didn't get down deep and dirty with the shopping carts now. Still a tragedy but at least no further risks were taken.

John

 

[lionfish-eater]

A boat based search with a grapple would be much safer.

 

[gbray]

I have done recovery dives in low vis rivers and near 0 vis lakes for items but never for a body. For anyone reading this thinking it would be cool its not.it's creepy, dangerous and very difficult. if your not used to low vis or rivers the combination of both can be extremely difficult. Try it with no urgent or critical need first to get used to the enviroment.