Best agency for learning Tech diving - criteria given - honest :)

[MXGratefulDiver]

Which is what I stated in the first post, below.

You're still repeating yourself and still going in circles.

... but that wasn't the post that got me involved in this conversation ... this one was ...

Or you could just throw a dart at the GUE list of instructors and be humbled by whomever the dart lands on. You're basically guaranteed some of the best diving education money can buy.

It's rather relevent to the point I've been trying to make.

But you're quite correct ... I'm repeating myself.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added April 3rd, 2015 at 01:47 PM ----------

I'd be more interested in getting the casualty safe than worrying about something as insignificant as a trailing hose.

A trailing hose ... particularly a long hose ... can easily become rather significant if it gets snagged on something or entangled in a distressed diver's body or equipment. At a minimum it could be a distraction at a time when you need to have your mind on more important matters, particularly if something like contact with an errant fin causes it to free-flow. At best, it's sloppy diving technique which can and should be avoided. It just compounds a potential risk factor.

At some point I'm hoping the penny drops that I'm talking about the 1970s, not today. Breathing one cylinder dry and de-canting was the gas management practice of the day.

Why didn't you just say so? What does that have to do with what BSAC teaches today?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

I dive with people trained by a whole host of agencies, many classed as technical. Interestingly very few use the Hog configeration. To my knowledge there is only one agency that insists on it, with the rest it's the instructor's call. Cave diving is where the procedure came from and it's the appropriate setup for that environment,

I am not sure what you mean by the Hog configuration. To me, it is a pretty big picture, including backplate, wing, etc. I am guessing from your following posts that you are focusing primarily on the use of doubles with a long hose coming off the right post and the alternate coming off the left post and hanging from a bungee around the neck. I am certified to teach tech for two agencies: TDI and PADI (new for me). Both teach this. The PADI tech course has a pretty big section explaining how it is done and why.

I have done technical diving in a number of locations over the past 4-5 years. Yes, some of it has been in caves, but most of it has been open water. Most of those dives have been off boats with other divers from what I assume must be a variety of training backgrounds, including GUE. I think an onlooker who did not know better would say that they all looked pretty much the same, and you would have to really know what you were looking for to spot the ones who were doing anything different from the GUE divers.

---------- Post added April 3rd, 2015 at 03:09 PM ----------

You also stow it after doing an S-drill.

I want to push this point a little and explain why it is at all important.

I do a lot of diving off of boats, sometimes on very crowded boats. Even on a recreational dive with a single tank, I am wearing a long hose and a bungeed alternate because after I learned to do that in my tech training, I realized it was the best way to handle OOA emergencies, and so it made no sense to do it any differently on those dives. When gearing up on a crowded boat, whether it is a single tank dive or a decompression dive with doubles and two decompression bottles clipped onto your left side, the hardest part for me can be simply getting my harness together. I have trouble seeing what I am doing, and most of it is done by feel. I have learned that a common problem when gearing up, at least for me, is getting either the light cord or the long hose trapped underneath the right side of my harness. Consequently, the last thing I do before getting up and heading for the jumping off point is to do a modified S-drill, holding my long hose out fully extended so that I know it is clear and ready to be used in an emergency. It then takes a few seconds to put it back into place.

When I am going from the shore in calm water, at least a modified S-drill is done in the water at the start of every dive for the same reason. I know that if you are out of air, my donation to you will be free and unhindered.

My sense is that if I faced a challenge stowing that long hose after checking to make sure it is clear, then I might be a bit reluctant to do that drill, and my buddy might not like the result in a real emergency.

 

[Edward3c]

I am not sure what you mean by the Hog configuration. To me, it is a pretty big picture, including backplate, wing, etc. I am guessing from your following posts that you are focusing primarily on the use of doubles with a long hose coming off the right post and the alternate coming off the left post and hanging from a bungee around the neck. I am certified to teach tech for two agencies: TDI and PADI (new for me). Both teach this. The PADI tech course has a pretty big section explaining how it is done and why.

I have done technical diving in a number of locations over the past 4-5 years. Yes, some of it has been in caves, but most of it has been open water. Most of those dives have been off boats with other divers from what I assume must be a variety of training backgrounds, including GUE. I think an onlooker who did not know better would say that they all looked pretty much the same, and you would have to really know what you were looking for to spot the ones who were doing anything different from the GUE divers.

Hi John,

It isn't as sophisticated as that, I see people with singles and a pony with a long hose round their neck (and your right it isn't a proper hog-loop). Its become a fad that is being adopted without proper training.

The reason BSAC don't teach it, is it requires primary donate. The current BSAC training from Ocean Diver upwards is secondary take. Therein lies the anomaly.

 

[Warren_L]

Once deployed in an OOG situation why would it be re-stowed?

A couple more situations where you would want to restow....

In a team of three in an OOG situation if you are gas sharing, team resources are spread amongst three divers so, depending on the circumstances, an OOG diver could potentially receive gas from the other two during exit. This would necessitate restowing of the long hose if donors are switched.

In lost deco gas scenarios where deco gas is shared and team members alternate using the shared deco gas and backgas for deco, this would also necessitate restowing of the long hose.

 

[boulderjohn]

Hi John,

It isn't as sophisticated as that, I see people with singles and a pony with a long hose round their neck (and your right it isn't a proper hog-loop). Its become a fad that is being adopted without proper training.

The reason BSAC don't teach it, is it requires primary donate. The current BSAC training from Ocean Diver upwards is secondary take. Therein lies the anomaly.

I was primarily responding to your suggestion that tech agencies are not generally unified in their teaching of the Hgarthian style of of gear for technical diving. My response is that they pretty much are very unified in this. As I said, if you looked at a DIR diver next to another tech diver who has had no DIR training, the odds are you would really have to know what you were looking for to spot the differences.

 

[PfcAJ]

I'd be more interested in getting the casualty safe than worrying about something as insignificant as a trailing hose.

Its not insignificant when its god-knows-where dumping gas or getting hung up on the wreck/cave/rocks/whatever, or if you are going to need it again later.

 

[HungoverDiver]

It isn't as sophisticated as that, I see people with singles and a pony with a long hose round their neck (and your right it isn't a proper hog-loop). Its become a fad that is being adopted without proper training.

I'm not following, what part of long hose around the neck is not proper hog?



I'm pretty sure this is the correct routing, and there's no reason why it can't be done for single or double tanks.

 

[ScubaInChicago]

Any update on the GUE course schedule the OP signed up for?

 

[eelnoraa]

BSAC do promote long hose, just not rapped round the neck.

Redundancy, you must be kidding. Dives were called when we hit reserve, at 30bar. Not unusual to surface with 10 or less. Much safer today.

Even with twins there was no redundancy. 1^St cylinder breathed until empty, open 2^nd cylinder until balanced, close 1^st cylinder and breath 2^nd until empty, open 1^st cylinder again to finish the dive. No pressure gauge.

Cylinders were only 160bar then, hence why they were twined. I bought a new high pressure luxfer 207bar in the early 80s which allowed single cylinder diving.

So I learned something today. People and taught dive very differently. 30bar is 435PSI, 10bar is 150PSI. I really can't call it safe. I have never cut that close myself, and I will never cut that close in my dive plan. But it is me.

 

[rongoodman]

It isn't as sophisticated as that, I see people with singles and a pony with a long hose round their neck (and your right it isn't a proper hog-loop). Its become a fad that is being adopted without proper training.

So you're saying their necklaced secondary is run off the pony rather than the main tank? Not the way I would do it, but I don't seen that it effects donation of the long hose or makes it not a proper hog loop. (If I was carrying a pony, I would just call it a stage and sling it.)