Rescue diver certification as a medical doctor: EFR needed?

[TMHeimer]

I think it's actually more important for a medical practitioner to undergo first aid training. They probably have periodic CPR training, although I've seen some very poor skills among doctors and nurses. But first aid skills are hardly ever taught, especially to doctors. No offense to Lynne, but most physicians, even some ER docs, would be inept at bandaging and splinting if they didn't have nurses to help. Theory is one thing. Practical skills are something else.



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Makes sense. But in the two EFR courses I've taken (one in Canada, one in New Jersey), there was no first aid (bandaging, etc.) that I recall. The two times I've taken St. John Ambulance course in Canada there was some decent work on these things, but you just had to do it the way the instructor said at the time--and you pass. I review this stuff myself daily, but you'd think there would be some kind of performance test periodically WITHOUT being told how. I guess it's a matter of personal responsibility. I agree with Nasser in that if I'm in trouble I want a doctor there, not someone certified (by EFR or elsewhere) in CPR/First Aid. When I quit DMing I'll stop reviewing some of the stuff I review now, but I'll always review the CPR/first aid stuff in case my wife (or others) are in trouble.

 

[ScubaDocER]

I too am an ER doc and was told that CPR was required to take the Rescue Class. My Instructor knew me as a medical professional and acknowledged my CPR card.

Training in Emergency Medicine involves many things including splinting, airway management, etc. I agree that different certain professionals (such as a dermatologist) may be challenged to perform basic CPR, splinting, etc. It would seem reasonable to just take the course.

As a medical professional, I am held to a higher standard than my EFR/CPR card would state. Certainly that would be the case for an EM doc. I would be expected to perform to the best of my abilities. Those expectations would exceed what's on the card.

I suppose it's up to the Instructor as to what they will accept. I can appreciate both sides of the issue and if there is doubt, just take the class.

 

[raftingtigger]

I am an ER doc, and have to keep ACLS and PALS and ATLS current. None of it was considered to substitute for EFR when we contacted PADI for my Rescue class. I had to take the EFR.

BLS is incorporated in ACLS so you should be covered there. PADI accepted my credentials (in a written statement to me) as a currently licensed physician assistant for the first-aid portion and current ACLS for the BLS portion. I refreshed my Rescue diver in 2011. TSandM either you got a uninformed PADI employee or they have changed their policy.

From an email from Dave Walls - PADI training dated 6/16/11

"ACLS certification: meets requirements for CPR provider


PA certification: meets requirements for Basic First Aid

You may share this email with the PADI Instructor or PADI Facility you wish to complete a PADI Divemaster course with. If they have any questions please have them contact me at 800-729-7234 ext 2336 or by email to: [email]leroy.wickham@padi.com[/EMAIL]."

 

[modustollens]

I have an EMT certificate. When I did the first aid course for my rescue I found it pretty light. It was good to review some things (for I don't work as an EMT now), but I have more than enough education and top quality books to review it myself.

I have only done two first aid/CPR refreshers since I received my EMT. Since I was young I did many first aid courses. Compared to the last two I have had in the past the latest ones are fairly light. I even did one in when I was in university and they were not even teaching people how to find and take a pulse rate.

Its a bit absurd to 'train down,' but, after all, we need to put another dollar in.


MT

 

[TMHeimer]

I have an EMT certificate. When I did the first aid course for my rescue I found it pretty light. It was good to review some things (for I don't work as an EMT now), but I have more than enough education and top quality books to review it myself.

I have only done two first aid/CPR refreshers since I received my EMT. Since I was young I did many first aid courses. Compared to the last two I have had in the past the latest ones are fairly light. I even did one in when I was in university and they were not even teaching people how to find and take a pulse rate.

Its a bit absurd to 'train down,' but, after all, we need to put another dollar in.


MT

In the 4 courses I took since '06 I have never been shown how to take a pulse rate. I know how to do it because I read the books. Your second sentence about your education and books is exactly the way I look at it (though I am only a Lay CPRist.)

 

[MB NZ]

Making a medical doctor take an EFR course makes a lot of sense for most doctors. Just think how many doctor specialties there are and how many are involved with emergency care. A very small percentage. That's why the requirements don't mention anything about one's profession, but a particular qualification. What I don't understand is how some people apparently didn't get their training and certifications recognized when they were more than valid while others did... Maybe some instructors being too strict on the way they read the PADI standards or not taking the time to talk to PADI?

That is a good post. I'm a medical doctor, my specialty is anaesthetics and critical care. I have to have a current certificate in ACLS, and have certificates in APLS and ATLS as well. Colleagues in other specialities don't and with no disrespect to them, I shudder at the thought of them managing an emergency. I don't think an MD (or equivalent) is sufficient. Perhaps a current certificate in ACLS (or equivalent) would be a good compromise as a substitute for EFR.

 

[raftingtigger]

I watched as my 2 Eagle Scout sons took the EFR course to update their CPR certification about 2 years ago. It covered CPR and AED use adequately, but to say it included first aid was a joke. The EFR book wasn't worth anywhere near the price charged. There are so many other, much better and more extensive, and cheaper references around (including the first aid sections of the Boy Scout manual). Both my sons felt the same way.

IMHO, having a CURRENT medical professional license (EMT, Paramedic, RN, NP, PA, MD, DO) PLUS a current CPR or ACLS (or equivalent) far surpasses the EFR certificate. To defend this: To be a wilderness camp medic (at least for the BSA) for a group of 300+ youth and adults, the above qualifications are required. EFR wouldn't be sufficient.

That doesn't prohibit the MD, etc with no current clinical experience from taking EFR if the think they can benefit.

 

[Imbodie]

Was an LPN when I did rescue and DM. Instructor called PADI, all they required at the time was copy of my CPR card and copy of my nursing license.

Tim

 

[Peter Guy]

Re TSandM and her response -- she is incorrect -- I was permitted to use her ACLS card as proof of current CPR/EFR.

BUT, and this may be why she responded as she did, even though she has all that and has been doing ER work for 20+ years, including teaching residents and PAs, she can not get her EFR Instructor Rating without taking the EFR Instructor course.

 

[JohnN]

Re TSandM and her response -- she is incorrect -- I was permitted to use her ACLS card as proof of current CPR/EFR.

BUT, and this may be why she responded as she did, even though she has all that and has been doing ER work for 20+ years, including teaching residents and PAs, she can not get her EFR Instructor Rating without taking the EFR Instructor course.

LOL. My wife took the Red Cross EFR Instructor course. Immense bureaucracy, incorrect and incomplete medical advice, and they make you re-cert on an absurdly frequent interval. She's no longer an instructor.