Full time experienced instructor

[tridacna]

"Interested female applicants between 18 and 25 years old with good eyesight, a pleasing personality and at least a height of 5’3” and weight proportional to height may apply..."

Did you just copy that from the Oral Roberts University website?

 

[Dhboner]

You are kidding, right? What business doesn't discriminate based on whatever criteria they so choose? Have you ever been to a job interview? Do you think they are only listening to your prepared spiel? Whatever key words and tricky phrases you vomit up to get the job? Anyone can do that, they are looking to see if you "fit in", an office full of active 30 somethings who play racquetball in the evenings and crossfit before work just aren't going to play well with a 55 year old fat black guy who is on his last job before retirement. An engineering firm with a bunch of nerds in black rimmed glasses who play Worlds of Warcraft all night aren't going to be happy with a festival goer in the mix. OR, maybe they are looking for some diversity. Smart managers get a mix of interests in an office (or dive shop) to provide better customer service.

It is impossible to get discrimination out of the work place. Anyone who believes different is blowing smoke up their own a$$. Bryan is being honest when he says that many applicants are wasting their time.

Even if I believe you are right (and you may very well be right) I think that if we tacitly accept that then we have one foot over the brink as a society. I am not naive...I am 57 years old and have worked since my days as a 10 year old paper boy so I DO have a CLUE how the world works but that doesn't mean I don't challenge the status quo if I think it is wrong. If you are comfortable in a world where an employer can deny a qualified applicant a job because they are not the right "demographic" then I can't change your mind but even if I am just "tilting at windmills" I am going to challenge that archaic principle every time I encounter it...now then who uses a "Spare Air"

 

[Wookie]

Even if I believe you are right (and you may very well be right) I think that if we tacitly accept that then we have one foot over the brink as a society. I am not naive...I am 57 years old and have worked since my days as a 10 year old paper boy so I DO have a CLUE how the world works but that doesn't mean I don't challenge the status quo if I think it is wrong. If you are comfortable in a world where an employer can deny a qualified applicant a job because they are not the right "demographic" then I can't change your mind but even if I am just "tilting at windmills" I am going to challenge that archaic principle every time I encounter it...now then who uses a "Spare Air"

I use an Air 2 on my BP&W, even if I'm diving trimix. Will I die?

 

[bl6394]

The rule of law is something I'm passionate about. So just for fun...

The following link is to the Antigua and Barbuda Labour Code: http://www.laws.gov.ag/acts/chapters/cap-27.pdf.

Of Specific interest is section C4: relating to the commencement, requirements and termination of employment, where section (1) and (2) state:

(1) No employer shall discriminate with respectbecause of race,etc. to any person's hire, tenure, wages, hours, or any other conditionof work, by reason of race, colour, creed, sex, ageor political beliefsrovided, however, that this shall not be construed asforbidding the taking of personnel actions genuinely relatedto that person's ability to discharge the duties of the employmentin question.(2) Anyone who contravenes'the requirements of subsection(1) shall be guilty of an offence and on summary convictionshall be liable to a fine of three thousand dollars andto imprisonment for twelve months.

By publicly specifying a gender and age requirement for an open position where the duties include technical dive instruction and boat handling - do I create evidence of a discriminatory policy? Sure.
Can I reasonably argue that women (or men for that matter) over the age of 39 can not effectively discharge those duties? Probably not.
Is my liability under this a $3000 fine and 12 months in prison? Yup.

Now a lawyer from Antigua might jump in and post that as a practical matter, prosecutors in Antigua don't enforce this law, or evidentiary practices may make it difficult to prosecute, etc.

But as a prudent hiring manager - even if I'm knowingly breaking labor law - I probably would not post about it on Scubaboard...

 

[Omisson]

The answer isn't government regulation it's consumer choice.

It's amazing how many people think they have the right to tell other people what to do with their property.

 

[cbm32]

Reality is that discrimination off all kinds still exists and it is nearly impossible to stop business owners from hiring based on whatever they want to. However, by forcing them to adhere to certain laws we can at least force them to look at a wider range of applicants. In doing so, there is at least a chance that they will recognize an applicant that would have otherwise never even have been considered that is the BEST applicant and would in fact be the biggest asset to their business. The business owner is then pretty much free to do the right thing, and the thing that is in reality best for his business, or to make a poor decision that may lead to restricting the success of his business.

I think we all have our own biases. I know when hiring I envision the "perfect candidate" in my mind going in and that candidate profile often includes some factors that, upon close inspection, have little to do with the actual job requirements. However, when making the selection there is very seldom any perfect candidate and I, hopefully, have made final decisions based on the factors that do actually impact performance of the job in question.

 

[kr2y5]

The answer isn't government regulation it's consumer choice. It's amazing how many people think they have the right to tell other people what to do with their property.

Hmm... assuming that you really do mean this (which I suspect is not quite the case), surely you must be against any form of tax... since being taxed amounts to other people claiming some of your property, and spending it in a manner you might not approve of. And, since a government cannot function without tax, you must therefore be against any form of government... or healthcare, or education system, or law enforcement, or indeed, any other kind of public service except that, which you voluntarily choose to sponsor. Now, with respect to the law enforcement, or legal system, imagine what a society it would be, if the only laws that get enforced, or legal decisions made, would be those, for which an adequate payment was received... indeed, that would be a society, in which bribery is rampant. Is this a society you want?

Now, working our way backwards... if you accept that it's OK to sacrifice some of your property, or personal freedom, to enable a society that provides some services for everyone, and universally enforces certain healthy principles (like, people having equal opportunities, regardless of sex, color, etc.), then it should follow that it's also OK to prohibit employers from randomly discriminating against people, and calling that out isn't just political correctness, it's the right thing to do...

 

[Wookie]

Hmm... assuming that you really do mean this (which I suspect is not quite the case), surely you must be against any form of tax... since being taxed amounts to other people claiming some of your property, and spending it in a manner you might not approve of. And, since a government cannot function without tax, you must therefore be against any form of government... or healthcare, or education system, or law enforcement, or indeed, any other kind of public service except that, which you voluntarily choose to sponsor. Now, with respect to the law enforcement, or legal system, imagine what a society it would be, if the only laws that get enforced, or legal decisions made, would be those, for which an adequate payment was received... indeed, that would be a society, in which bribery is rampant. Is this a society you want?

Oh, Please. Really? You equate anarchy with business freedom? Let me ask this. Let's say you don't like redheads. Really, there are folks out there that don't like gingers. Think we have no soul, but I digress. Let's say you are one of them. You going to go to a dive shop where all of the instructors are gingers? Let's say you don't like pink slime in your burger. You going to eat at 5 Guys or McDonalds? Hint: I haven't had a quarter pounder in many years, but a 5 Guys is some yummy stuff. I don't see anyone advocating anarchy and throwing all laws out the window, Omission is a lawyer, he makes his living with laws.

I think (without trying to put words in his mouth) that he is saying that some laws are passed with the best intentions to make a level playing field for workers but the laws are all but worthless when it comes to real life, as they are so easy to circumvent.

If you were to come on my boat, you'd find a real shortage of minorities in the crew. I have a Puerto Rican this year, but I don't know if they are officially minorities. Had a black guy last year, but he isn't coming back. Anyway, it isn't because I don't want any minorities, it's because only white folks apply for the job. Now, if the government made me have a diverse crew and regulated that, I'd have to find some minority crewmembers, regardless of their abilities to do the job. Would government regulation mandating skin color over fitness for duty make you feel better on a liveaboard where one of the crew might save your life in an emergency?> Or might not?

Point is, business needs to do what business needs to survive and prosper. No government ever prospered except on the backs of the taxpayers.

 

[cbm32]

" No government ever prospered except on the backs of the taxpayers."

This is true, but many (if not a majority) of those being discriminated against are tax payers too.

 

[Wookie]

" No government ever prospered except on the backs of the taxpayers."

This is true, but many (if not a majority) of those being discriminated against are tax payers too.

I assure you that the dive instructor hired will pay taxes in Antigua. Regardless of their age or gender.