Help choose the right BC & regulator system

[azmodan50]

I think back-inflate has the same feature to get air balanced at the back.

Yeah, I dove with a jacket and it was good. I'm considering back-inflate, because the feature of balanced air.
Though, I read that jacket is newer than back-inflate. So, how would back-inflate be better than jacket?

My point was that when you are horizontal, the air in a jacket and back inflate BC will be in the same location. So there is no difference. One is not better then the other. It's all about preference. Some people here say that back inflate is better because when horizontal, the air in a back inflate will be where you want it. I'm saying that a jacket BC does the same thing.

 

[WarriorWolf]

I thought about your ideas of the difference between buying a package and separate parts.

I searched at leisurepro and thought of the following:

1. Mares Rover 12S Regulator marked as Top Rated Gear for $204.95

• First Stage Features:
• Balanced Diaphragm Design
• 4 LP and 2 HP Ports
• Second Stage Features:
• Soft Purge Diaphragm with Mesh-Grid
• Downstream Demand Valve

The prestige is out of stock and has similar features of this one. And this has a very good price.

2. Zeagle ZO Onyx Yoke Regulator, $299.99

• First Stage: ZEAGLE ZO Onyx Yoke
• Balanced Diaphragm Design, Inherently Environmentally Sealed
• 5 Low Pressure Ports (3/8"-24 UNF)
• 2 High Pressure Ports (7/16"-20 UNF)
• Second Stage: ZEAGLE ZO Onyx
• Pneumatically Balanced Downstream Demand Valve
• Lightweight, Compact and Comfortable
• Diver Adjustable Inhalation Resistance

I like that it has adjustable inhale system. Which is not in the previous one.

3. Cressi XS Compact MC9 Regulator Silver Plat, Top Rated Gear $254.95

• 1'st Stage:
• MC5 First Sage Hyper-Balanced Diaphragm
• 2 High Pressure and 4 Low Pressure Ports
• 2'nd Stage:
• Reliable Downstream Demand Valve
• Comfortable Mouthpiece

4. Scuba Pro MK11/R195 Regulator $369.00

• First-Stage:
• Balanced Diaphragm 1st Stage Design
• Multiple LP Ports, 2 HFP, 2 SFP
• 2 HP Ports
• Second-Stage:
• Classic Downstream Demand Valve
• Diver-Adjustable Venturi-Initiated Vacuum Assist (VIVA)

What do HFP and SFP mean?

5. Cressi Compact Pro MC9 Regulator $269.95

• 2'nd Stage Features: Cressi XS Compact
• Reliable Downstream Demand Valve
• 1'st Stage: Cressi MC9
• Hyper-Balanced Diaphragm Design
• Two 7/16" Threaded High Pressure Ports
• Four 3/8" Threaded Low Pressure Ports

There are other specifications for each one. I listed the most important to me.

 

[diversteve]

What do HFP and SFP mean?

High Flow Ports deliver about 15% more air than conventional ports.

So put your 2nd stages on them. I'm assuming SFP is "Standard" Flow Port?

I don't know if you noticed but I spec'd the MK11/S360 - not MK11/R195. The difference is that the R195 second is not balanced although it is the classic downstream technology and as reliable - just requires a little more inhalation effort to overcome the spring. Both have VIVA so either probably work as well for 99% of the diving you'll be doing.

But for $50 - I'd personally get the S360. It has their "Extra High Flow Exhaust Valve" and a VIVA dive/pre-dive switch. Sometimes if regulators are too finely tuned they'll freeflow in rougher surface conditions unless set to pre-dive.

It's also over an ounce lighter. Which you'd probably notice over the duration of a dive in a comparison. Probably because the R195 has a reversible hose fitting so requires more material on that side of the 2nd stage housing. The "S" series 2nd stages are newer technology also - their top of the line MK25 is often paired with an S600.

 

[WarriorWolf]

Yeah, see these two scubapro .. I see them as expensive sets, I'm eventually looking for the most effective price.

Like the first one I posted earlier which is the Mares 12S rover, the second stage seems to has a good air flow system, do you agree? And a very good price too.

So, for scubapros:
1.SCUBAPRO MK11/S360 Regulator $409.00

• First-Stage: SCUBAPRO MK11 Regulator
• Balanced Diaphragm 1st Stage Design
• Second-Stage: SCUBAPRO S360 Regulator
• Pre-Tuned Inhalation for Uncomplicated-Use
• Air-Balanced-Flow-Valve Design
• Diver Adjustable Venturi Initiated Vacuum Assist (VIVA)
• VIVA: Dive/Pre-Dive Control Switch
• Extra High Flow Exhaust Valve

2.SCUBAPRO MK21/S560 Regulator $539.00

• First-Stage: SCUBAPRO MK21 Regulator
• New Compact-Sized Piston-Controlled First Stage
• Ultra-Fast Breathing Response
• Thermal Insulating System (TIS)
• Second-Stage: SCUBAPRO S560 Regulator
• Air Balanced Design
• Diver Adjustable Inhalation Effort: Personal Adjustment of Breathing Effort
• Venturi Initiated Vacuum Assist (VIVA)
• Extra High Flow Exhaust Valve
• Easy Inhalation & Exhalation at Any-Depth or Breathing Rate

So, why s560 is more expensive? It seems that s560 has new features; like TIS .. what else?

 

[diversteve]

The primary (maybe only) difference between the S560 and S360 is the S560 has Diver Adjustable Inhalation - the S360's is factory set.

The S560 has a Diver Adjustable Inhalation Control that enables personal Adjustment of Breathing Effort.

The SCUBAPRO S360 Second Stage is based on the new 560 Second Stage, but with Pre-Tuned Inhalation for Uncomplicated-Use.

I have it on my regs. I can't recall the last time I adjusted it to anything but full open. Not sure why you wouldn't want the regulator to flow as much air as possible?

If you're still using LeisurePro for these comparisons, in the regulator section click 2nd stages to the left, then Scubapro at the top. That will list the 7 options available. Pick the S360/560 in separate windows and click the features/specifications tab and you'll have a side by side comparison of both regulators features. That's how I figured out the difference quickly.

You're comparing two different things in your previous post which accounts for part of the price difference in your two listings. the MK21 in the 2nd option is Scubapro's newest Piston regulator that's 20% smaller than their MK25 and has 4 HFP ports not two like on the MK11. Pistons generally flow more air although that's debatable except under extreme conditions. They add the TIS since it's more likely to freeze sooner in cold water than a Diaphragm based model like the MK11 (or MK17)

 

[WarriorWolf]

The primary (maybe only) difference between the S560 and S360 is the S560 has Diver Adjustable Inhalation - the S360's is factory set.

Alright this is an important one, because I have to know how the one with no "Diver Adjustable Inhalation" would perform?

The one I used has to give more power for inhalation. So, is the one with no "Diver Adjustable Inhalation" which is new model as the other regs in the my first list perform very well?

I have it on my regs. I can't recall the last time I adjusted it to anything but full open. Not sure why you wouldn't want the regulator to flow as much air as possible?

You mean full open for easiest inhalation? If so, how would you compare it to other regs you may used with no "Diver Adjustable Inhalation"?

Is full open better or normal one is very good too?

If you're still using LeisurePro for these comparisons, in the regulator section click 2nd stages to the left, then Scubapro at the top. That will list the 7 options available. Pick the S360/560 in separate windows and click the features/specifications tab and you'll have a side by side comparison of both regulators features. That's how I figured out the difference quickly.

Yeah, I'm still having LeisurePro with my tabs for purchasing scuba gear. I think it's A very good website. I looked for other websites; like, divers-supply.com, and there is little difference in prices.

So, they are the same eventually. And, of course of bringing up two tabs together, and for more tabs.

You understand other features for these regs, where I looked for most important and learned others as well so thanks ..

You're comparing two different things in your previous post which accounts for part of the price difference in your two listings. the MK21 in the 2nd option is Scubapro's newest Piston regulator that's 20% smaller than their MK25 and has 4 HFP ports not two like on the MK11. Pistons generally flow more air although that's debatable except under extreme conditions. They add the TIS since it's more likely to freeze sooner in cold water than a Diaphragm based model like the MK11 (or MK17)

Yeah, that's because I'm still attracted to the price of Mares 12S for $205 !!

What is special about scubapro for $540?

 

[diversteve]

Re: Diver Inhalation. On the 360 the factory picks the setting based on testing that is probably optimal for most people/dives. On the 560, the knob lets you tweak that yourself. Any reg I've owned in the last decade (all Atomics) have had one so I can't answer your question about performance - also I've never dove either reg in question - the closest I've come is evaluating a MK25/S600 before buying my Atomic. Real in-water test but in a 15' deep pool.

I just turn mine full on and forget about it. I figure if I need the easiest breathing during a higher stress dive, I'll have it, otherwise I can breathe more easily and not have to be pulling against the resistance. I doubt I'd notice the difference if it was factory set either since I only dive recreationally.

This is just my opinion - Atomic, Apeks, Aqualung, Poseidon and Scubapro are among the top brands available - and have been for years. I also sort of like Oceanic but I have no real experience with their gear. What that translates into is premium pricing since most of the top mfr's also fix prices in some way - for example - every Atomic Z2 I've ever seen, store or online - is $409. You don't see much discounting on ScubaPro and none on Aqualung - except at LeisurePro where they are not authorized dealers so provide their own warranty instead.

There's only about 1/2 dozen regulator mfr's in the world so many brands come from the same overseas factory - they're just built to the mfr's requirements. Including some of the ones listed above. Atomic has their own factory as does Apeks. Poseidon must also just since their line is so different. If you compare HOG/Edge and DiveRite regs, the similarities are obvious. Not always a bad thing since the prices can be lower for the same performance and parts can be cheaper to come by.

Buy the Mares if it makes you happy - you keep mentioning it repeatedly.

I'm not a Mares fan so you won't see a recommendation from me. I don't even follow their line except very occasionally. Yet I pretty well know all most of the features/diffences between Atomic, ScubaPro, Aqualung/Apeks or Poseidon as that's my interest.

 

[WarriorWolf]

[video]https://youtu.be/WIdPgtu5zyw[/video]

How about this BCD? it's for $245 .. I like the prices of Mares. And they should be very good quality.

Also, provide me with you recommendation for a good BC.


I just want to be sure of the reg, because of the inhalation adjusting feature.

This is a more expensive reg from aqua lung

Aqua Lung Mikron Regulator

How about it?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The BC is too complicated for my tastes. It's also a travel BC. I don't like them even suggesting that you can load 28 lbs of lead into it. Don't care for the bungees on the wing either.


As for regs at the recreational level the average diver would be hard pressed to tell the difference between a 600.00 reg and 250.00 one. It really depends on how it's tuned. The high flow ports and the standard flow ports? Gimmicks. The only way you'd notice a difference is on a machine. You won't be able to tell by breathing it.

Diving cold water is one of the times when you absolutely would not want the highest flow possible. Good way to freeze up a reg. Inhalation adjust is nice for when you want to detune the octo yet have the option of a high performance reg for the donor or the LOA/OOA diver. Detuning it when it's stowed minimizes the chance of free flow. Using a stiffer breathing reg for an octo or back kinda makes no sense. If you were OOA would you want a stiff breathing reg that may elevate your stress level? I sure wouldn't. At the same time if I have to go on the octo or back up reg do I want a good breather or one I have to work to get air from? Answer should be obvious. My primary and my octo or back up seconds are exactly the same model.

As to the price differences - because they can. Along with needing to pay for high dollar ads, reps, and those "free parts". They are not free, you're just paying for them on the front end.

 

[WarriorWolf]

The BC is too complicated for my tastes. It's also a travel BC. I don't like them even suggesting that you can load 28 lbs of lead into it. Don't care for the bungees on the wing either.

You are right, it looks complicated. Though, it's foldable and has detachable parts. Isn't that a good feature?

As for regs at the recreational level the average diver would be hard pressed to tell the difference between a 600.00 reg and 250.00 one. It really depends on how it's tuned. The high flow ports and the standard flow ports? Gimmicks. The only way you'd notice a difference is . You won't be able to tell by breathing it.

"on a machine" you mean when testing it on a machine?

OK, so there is no big difference in performance between two regulators at similar trade levels. For example, I want to choose between 4 regs.

scuba pro S360 MK11 scuba pro S560 MK21	$409.00 $539.00	Pre-Tuned Inhalation for Uncomplicated-Use Diver Adjustable Inhalation Effort
Mares Rover 12S	$204.95	Soft Purge Diaphragm with Mesh-Grid
Aqua Lung Mikron	$349.95	Adjustment Knob

Diving cold water is one of the times when you absolutely would not want the highest flow possible. Good way to freeze up a reg. Inhalation adjust is nice for when you want to detune the octo yet have the option of a high performance reg for the donor or the LOA/OOA diver. Detuning it when it's stowed minimizes the chance of free flow. Using a stiffer breathing reg for an octo or back kinda makes no sense. If you were OOA would you want a stiff breathing reg that may elevate your stress level? I sure wouldn't. At the same time if I have to go on the octo or back up reg do I want a good breather or one I have to work to get air from? Answer should be obvious. My primary and my octo or back up seconds are exactly the same model.

How to detune the octo with the primary tuner? Are they related in a way? That's how I understood your idea.

As to the - because they can. Along with needing to pay for high dollar ads, reps, and those "free parts". They are not free, you're just paying for them on the front end.

Which price differences? do you mean from website to another or the actual mfrs?

---------- Post added May 21st, 2015 at 02:23 PM ----------


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