TSandM: Missing Diver in Clallam County, WA

[lamont]

True, but can you understand how a diver would inflate their lungs nearly full at 130' and ascent 55' without exhaling? Remember they were fighting a down-current so both would be have a high respiration rate from exertion. Yes there is about a 50% volume change between those depths but it is over 55', not 16½' like where the vast majority of embolisms occur.

4 feet of water is sufficient to overexpand the lungs, which is only 12%, which is the same as a 12 foot change from 82 feet to 70 feet. You keep trying to make it a 55' change that is required to cause lung injury but I just showed that your math is incorrect and substantially smaller changes in depth can cause injury. We also don't know where the injury occurred, only where she was last seen.

The last body recovery I did here was of a diver who was last seen corking from around 70-80 feet or possibly a little bit deeper, and he most certainly died from AGE due to barotrauma.

 

[Akimbo]

4 feet of water is sufficient to overexpand the lungs, which is only 12%, which is the same as a 12 foot change from 82 feet to 70 feet. You keep trying to make it a 55' change that is required to cause lung injury but I just showed that your math is incorrect and substantially smaller changes in depth can cause injury….

And I agree, but it is highly improbable in this case. A 12% gas expansion can produce an embolism-causing over-expansion. However, the lungs must start nearly full, like a freediver's leaving the surface. A 12% expansion above the normal peak respiratory cycle is not nearly enough and is far less than a person can inhale voluntarily.

Your 12% scenario is typical of someone who panics, or has no knowledge of diving physics, and sucks in a big lung-full before heading for sunshine. I can’t imagine that this is more than a highly remote possibility in this case.

It is possible for an embolism to occur during a normal inhalation cycle, but it requires and extremely significant and rapid volume change. That is widely believed to be the case in the Joachim Wendler death on the underwater habitat Helgoland. He as ascending along a rigid pipe anchored to the bottom near the surface during large swells.

 

[dgfishy]

So, getting to the question: Medical issues aside, could the motivation to maintain proper trim have contributed to Lynne's accident?

I'll go on the record of saying yes.

I had conversations with Lynne that specifically addressed breaking good trim in situations where it could prove overly complicated or dangerous.

She wholeheartedly was in the camp of "Don't be bashful, do it!" While anything is possible, I doubt this scenario very much.

 

[Adobo]

Gauging from what I have read on this board, one of the cornerstones of proper diving technique with the above group of divers, is to maintain "perfect trim" at all times. "Perfect trim" if I understand correctly, is having buoyancy and ballast balanced and the diver's posture is essentially parallel to the surface.

You're barking up the wrong tree.

Any experienced GUE trained diver (such as Lynne) would assume whatever trim is needed for the task at hand - head up, head down, upside down, whatever.

Whatever you are reading in the internet, it is giving you false impressions.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

So, getting to the question: Medical issues aside, could the motivation to maintain proper trim have contributed to Lynne's accident?

I'll go on the record of saying yes.

You would be incorrect in your assumption about her motivation ... as anyone who's actually dived with her could tell you. Let's please not use this incident to perpetuate commonly-held misunderstandings about how GUE-trained divers dive, or what their motivations might be for diving the way they do. Like pretty much ANY experienced diver, those adhering to DIR principles adjust their trim in the water based on the conditions they're diving in at any given time ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Hank49]

Edit: I mentioned “inflate their lungs nearly full” because the difference in lung volume between the peak lung inflation during a normal respiration and taking a deep lung-full like a freediver is usually more than twice the volume. A 50% increase over a normal respiratory peak wouldn’t even reach the lung inflation that a freediver leaves the surface with.

And that's not including the extra air you can add on top of a full breath by packing, or gulping air into your mouth and forcing it into your lungs. Another free diver method.

 

[kdupreez]

So, getting to the question: Medical issues aside, could the motivation to maintain proper trim have contributed to Lynne's accident?

I'll go on the record of saying yes.

I'll go on the record saying; you are wrong...

Dive more, read less internet forums...

 

[Peter Guy]

As this is the Accidents-and-Incidents forum I've tried to be very open minded about the posts. This one however really pisses me off:

"So, getting to the question: Medical issues aside, could the motivation to maintain proper trim have contributed to Lynne's accident?

I'll go on the record of saying yes."

JUST FOR THE RECORD, when I last saw her, Lynne was vertical.

This post was just out and out bull sh**t.

(Mods -- feel free to pull this --I just couldn't not respond.)

 

[PeterNBiddle]

Here's my thread on dealing with down currents.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/cozumel/502053-current.html



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[scubadada]

I don't think I could hold station in anything much over 2kt. At 9-10kt only the fastest of fish could hold station. A diver in this kind of current wouldn't be so much "diving" as being thrown around at the whim of the ocean. For comparison, the Rhine river, which flows fairly quickly for a large river, has currents at about 4-5kt.

R..

I just went "swimming" in the Rhine on Saturday. I'm a reasonably strong swimmer. Even with the river level low at the end of summer and being closer to shore than to midstream, I was only able to make headway against the current or hold my position for a relatively short time. Strong swimmers swim against the current for a good workout but still end up drifting downstream a significant distance. I can't imagine trying to dive against a current like this for very long. It would make for a very brisk drift dive