Not diving to greater than 30m/100ft unless with helium

[rongoodman]

I definitely notice narcosis in the form of short-term memory loss in 100' dives in Lake George(cold and dark). Warm and clear water, not so much.

 

[ajduplessis]

Worse than the Chinese, "we" will modify responses until they fit into what the "holly cows" want to see and hear.

Pathetic and a prime example that "emotionan attachment" causes similair mental response exhibited in divers that panic.

 

[Diver0001]

I definitely notice narcosis in the form of short-term memory loss in 100' dives in Lake George(cold and dark). Warm and clear water, not so much.

Narcosis is really unpredictable. As I said earlier in this thread, I dive to about 50m once a week for our "weekly bimble" and 9 times out of 10 I *think* I can function at that depth without too much trouble. I have noticed differences in how fast/slow things seem to unfold as compared to video, but other than that I don't usually feel overly "impaired".

On the 10th time, however, even though I do these deep dives pretty much every week, something else happens. Last Saturday, for example, during our weekly bimble I started feeling noticeably narced at 30m, which is shallow for me to feel narced, and by the time we got to 50m I was feeling seriously bonked. My buddy knew it. We dive an awful lot together and I have what he calls my "whale song" (involuntary vocalizations that I make when I'm feeling at ease). On Saturday, he heard me laughing instead of vocalizing.

Point is, here, that it's hard to say, "I feel narced when XYZ" because if you dive enough to those depths, there's going to be the odd time that it totally deviates from your expectations.

R..

 

[Neilwood]

Narcosis is really unpredictable. As I said earlier in this thread, I dive to about 50m once a week for our "weekly bimble" and 9 times out of 10 I *think* I can function at that depth without too much trouble. I have noticed differences in how fast/slow things seem to unfold as compared to video, but other than that I don't usually feel overly "impaired".

On the 10th time, however, even though I do these deep dives pretty much every week, something else happens. Last Saturday, for example, during our weekly bimble I started feeling noticeably narced at 30m, which is shallow for me to feel narced, and by the time we got to 50m I was feeling seriously bonked. My buddy knew it. We dive an awful lot together and I have what he calls my "whale song" (involuntary vocalizations that I make when I'm feeling at ease). On Saturday, he heard me laughing instead of vocalizing.

Point is, here, that it's hard to say, "I feel narced when XYZ" because if you dive enough to those depths, there's going to be the odd time that it totally deviates from your expectations.

R..

I realise that, as a noob with no deep diving experience, I could be completely off base with this but it is probably similar to the most other sports/fitness activities in that sometimes, no matter what the motivation, you don't "feel right".

I used to notice it when playing football, playing badminton, doing gym sessions or running (up to about 6-7 sessions combined over the activities). Despite knowing almost exactly where my limits were generally, there were the occasional times where I would go through the same warm ups etc only to find I was inexplicably more tired, out of it or only able to operate at about 70% of normal for no apparent reason.

Still never gotten to the bottom of it.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Worse than the Chinese, "we" will modify responses until they fit into what the "holly cows" want to see and hear.

Pathetic and a prime example that "emotionan attachment" causes similair mental response exhibited in divers that panic.

A basic instinct like the Need to Breath, is simply an essential vital fact.

Actually, it's the automatic evolutionary emotions like stress, fear and worst of all -Panic- that reduces situational awareness and causes perceptual narrowing to fixate only on these most basic instincts in an emergency. You have to control these primal emotions and turn to your conscious mind which is uniquely capable of deliberate & creative prtoblem solving. You don't want anything to add or compound a Panic situation like narcosis or vertigo for instance if you can help it.

While automatic emotions can quickly focus on the most immediate variables like the Need to Breath instinct, the learned & rational brain is able to expand the list of possibilities to resolve the situation and to do the most reasonable thing.

Obvious example: Fear of drowning and resulting panic in an Out-of-Air Scuba contingency compels to conserve one's breath (or "hold" your breath), and make for the surface as quickly as possible. But proper training dictates that even in this dire emergency to never hold your breath and instead perform a CESA --that is to rationally overcome the panic, and utilize the learned skill/technique that will give you the best chance of a viable outcome.

So the point is to use Helium to gain the best advantage of higher cognitive problem solving faculties, should you face an emergency in an Overhead or other challenging environmental (or physically exerting ) contingency.

 

[Peter69_56]

Being PADI I have never thought of using helium. My deep diving to 120+ feet has been very rare, but on those occasions I haven't felt any noticable effects of narcosis (I know we are affected somewhat and do things slower but maybe not notice). Not that it's at all important compared to one's safety, but I imagine helium costs a lot. Never heard of it above 130'.

Current pricing for helium in OZ is about 12 cents/litre AUD and in Vanuatu or Truk around 25 cents/litre USD

I am doing 4 dives this month and the cost to me will be in the order of $1200 for gas, not cheap at all.

 

[boulderjohn]

Quote Originally Posted by TMHeimer
Being PADI I have never thought of using helium.

I'm not clear about what PADI has to do with this. Helium is considered something to be used in technical diving, and PADI teaches it in its technical program.

 

[Errol Kalayci]

I have done a few dives over the years including deep dives before helium was used and after. I remember the days of having to buy a Hamilton table to test out Helium since the dives were getting complex and narcosis and O2 were definite issues. I remember being a “guinea pig” for Dr. Morgan Wells and creating our own tables since software was not available yet and we were fining what worked and did not work.
Keeping the foregoing background in mind, I became an early believer in helium enriched dives since it worked. Starting in 1994 I began using helium enriched nitrox by topping up deep mixes for shallower diving since I liked the benefits and began using it on dives less than 100’ often and repetitively during the day.
Personally, I quit diving air long ago altogether as it simply does not make sense at any depth. More recently, I have quit diving Nitrox as well unless helium is not available and its less than 100’ (or teaching a class that requires 32%). That’s right, now days I used helium in all my dives (unless not possible and it is shallow) including shallow reef dives. Why? I found the benefits of Helium far outweigh any drawbacks. The benefits include:
· Less CO2 potential buildup and substantially easier work of breathing
· Low/no narcosis
· I feel better during and after dive
· Able to accomplish much more and solve issues fast
· Why would I not want to be as clear headed underwater as I am on the surface?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I have done a few dives over the years including deep dives before helium was used and after. I remember the days of having to buy a Hamilton table to test out Helium since the dives were getting complex and narcosis and O2 were definite issues. I remember being a “guinea pig” for Dr. Morgan Wells and creating our own tables since software was not available yet and we were fining what worked and did not work.
Keeping the foregoing background in mind, I became an early believer in helium enriched dives since it worked. Starting in 1994 I began using helium enriched nitrox by topping up deep mixes for shallower diving since I liked the benefits and began using it on dives less than 100’ often and repetitively during the day.
Personally, I quit diving air long ago altogether as it simply does not make sense at any depth. More recently, I have quit diving Nitrox as well unless helium is not available and its less than 100’ (or teaching a class that requires 32%). That’s right, now days I used helium in all my dives (unless not possible and it is shallow) including shallow reef dives. Why? I found the benefits of Helium far outweigh any drawbacks. The benefits include:
·Less CO2 potential buildup and substantially easier work of breathing
·Low/no narcosis
·I feel better during and after dive
·Able to accomplish much more and solve issues fast
·Why would I not want to be as clear headed underwater as I am on the surface?

So you are using helium on 40 -50 ft reef dives??? I think this whole thing has gotten ridiculous. I remember george (the third) talking about how much smarter and sharper he was when breathing He while sitting in his living room and reading the newspaper.

Maybe we should use helium for the entire time we are on the surface and below? I mean don't we want to be as clear headed as possible?

 

[Akimbo]

... Maybe we should use helium for the entire time we are on the surface and below? I mean don't we want to be as clear headed as possible?

You can, but it sure plays hell on phone calls. More hang-ups than robo-calls and the police may visit looking for that pervert disguising their voice like Donald Duck.

Seriously, I concur. I have spent quite a few days between zero and 50' on HeO2 while decompressing and never noticed any cognitive change one way or the other. Same with all my chamber mates.