Are dive computers making bad divers?

[NAM001]

Buoyancy is a larger problem but computer was the topic of the OP

 

[The Chairman]

What about, in the immortal words of Winnie-the-Pooh, "both, please"?

I firmly believe that for many, trying to learn tables can side track a class. It's like teaching a sliderule because someday, on a reef far, far away you just might need it if the sand people nab R2D2 and step on your calculator. If you're planning a dive, then the rule of 120/140 works just fine.

Moreover, there's nothing intuitive about converting nitrogen loading to a letter group and then back again. That simply confuses the crap out of the average person. LED bar graphs are far easier for a new diver to comprehend the relationship between time, depth, surface intervals and how they relate to nitrogen loading. Dive simulators are great for that. You get the wrong person in a class and suddenly you're spending more time on tables than dive skills. Student time for me is precious... I want to spend what little I have on buoyancy, situational awareness and buddy skills. Tables are way, way down on my list of important skills to impart especially when they can turn into a distraction.

FWIW, we're finishing up a week with the ScubaBoard Surge here in Curacao. Not a single blip on the "PDC is broken" screen. That's about 55 of us, many of whom had multiple PDCs with absolutely no problems. There were even a few dives to 170+ at that. FWIW #2, I didn't see a single table all week... except for the breakfast, lunch and dinner tables.

 

[Storker]

I firmly believe that for many, trying to learn tables can side track a class.

Well, if you're an instructor, I can understand the urge to cater to the lowest denominator. That doesn't mean that those of us who are able to learn how to add two two-digit numbers without the aid of a calculator - or Google - don't benefit from reading and getting acquainted with the tables.

It's like teaching a sliderule because someday, on a reef far, far away you just might need it if the sand people nab R2D2 and step on your calculator.

IMO it's more like teaching basic math and how to round and estimate because one day your precious iPhone with the calculator app may run out of juice. What's really interesting is that if you know that, you don't need to whip it out just to calculate that if you've had three beers at 2.88$ each, the sum on your bill should be just on the south side of 9$.


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[phoenix31tt]

Well, if you're an instructor, I can understand the urge to cater to the lowest denominator. That doesn't mean that those of us who are able to learn how to add two two-digit numbers without the aid of a calculator - or Google - don't benefit from reading and getting acquainted with the tables.


IMO it's more like teaching basic math and how to round and estimate because one day your precious iPhone with the calculator app may run out of juice. What's really interesting is that if you know that, you don't need to whip it out just to calculate that if you've had three beers at 2.88$ each, the sum on your bill should be just on the south side of 9$.


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Typos are a feature, not a bug

Umm... Aren't you still whipping out your table to calculate your max depth? If you forget your precious table home, what then?

You still need to whip out something unless you are able to calculate ndls in your head (which you can't) but you may memorize ndls for dives you commonly do... Which u can do without a table


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[dmaziuk]

And the true gem of the evening was when I complemented him on the insane welds. Things of beauty. He he smiled and said "Ooooh Boaht, low pressure inside, high pressure outside, no difference."

Reminds me of the Futurama episode where the spaceship is getting dragged to the bottom of the sea and the professor comments on the increasing outside pressure. Fry: so how many atmospheres can the ship take? Professor: oh, just one.

 

[lowviz]

Delicious insight. Thanks for that!

Yes, things got better and easier for everyone after the war.

Here is the clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4RLOo6bchU

 

[scubadada]

I firmly believe that for many, trying to learn tables can side track a class. It's like teaching a sliderule because someday, on a reef far, far away you just might need it if the sand people nab R2D2 and step on your calculator. If you're planning a dive, then the rule of 120/140 works just fine.

Moreover, there's nothing intuitive about converting nitrogen loading to a letter group and then back again. That simply confuses the crap out of the average person. LED bar graphs are far easier for a new diver to comprehend the relationship between time, depth, surface intervals and how they relate to nitrogen loading. Dive simulators are great for that. You get the wrong person in a class and suddenly you're spending more time on tables than dive skills. Student time for me is precious... I want to spend what little I have on buoyancy, situational awareness and buddy skills. Tables are way, way down on my list of important skills to impart especially when they can turn into a distraction.

FWIW, we're finishing up a week with the ScubaBoard Surge here in Curacao. Not a single blip on the "PDC is broken" screen. That's about 55 of us, many of whom had multiple PDCs with absolutely no problems. There were even a few dives to 170+ at that. FWIW #2, I didn't see a single table all week... except for the breakfast, lunch and dinner tables.

I'm so disappointed that current students are such idiots

Same folks that run into you on the street because they can't look up from their f...ing phone for fear of missing a text or email. Just because we all use computers on our dives does not mean we should not appreciate the basis. Are you telling me mathematicians don't learn math because there are computers now, BS

 

[The Chairman]

Well, if you're an instructor, I can understand the urge to cater to the lowest denominator. That doesn't mean that those of us who are able to learn how to add two two-digit numbers without the aid of a calculator - or Google - don't benefit from reading and getting acquainted with the tables.

That's about the worst misrepresentation of how and why I teach as I've ever read. You have.a pretty useless skill in search of a problem for the average diver: tables! Focusing on skills that the divers actually need and will use makes a bit more sense to me. You call that catering down to the lowest deominator and I call it using my time wisely to create the very best diver in terms of trim, buoyancy, situational awareness and buddy skills. My students won't need a PPB or a hundred dives to figure it all out. They leave the gate able to maintain a five foot window easily and know how to extrapolate their buddy's gas usage at the same time.

Now, here's where your simplistic anecdote breaks down. You're not using your head, but are still relying on a table. The rule of 120/140 forces you to use your noggin and guesstimate. Then you use your SAC (another part of that lowest denominator class I teach) to determine if you have enough gas to even do the dive. FWIW, if your trim & buoyancy are crap, then gas supply and not NDLs will be the limiting factor of the dive.

I wonder when the last time anyone was field graded on their use of tables? "OMG! Do you see the way that guy flies over his tables??? Must be one mencsh of a diver!" Or is it, "OMG! Did you see that guy roto-till the bottom? If his instructor only spent a few more hours teaching tables, that would never happen. Damned instructors!" No, the competent diver earns that distinction by displaying great trim & buoyancy while demonstrating situational awareness and awesome buddy skills.

​

 

[Storker]

That's about the worst misrepresentation of how and why I teach as I've ever read.

Well, isn't hyperbole, straw men and excluded middle de rigeur in this thread?


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Typos are a feature, not a bug

 

[scubadada]

So you can spend a little time in the classroom teaching the rudiments of tables or buoyancy in the water, I don't see how you can't do both