Wait to take advanced open water? Or not?

[Basking Ridge Diver]

Sure... let's just hand out cards to students who've received "crappy" training and are not qualified to be admitted to more advanced dives on charters. Sounds like a great idea.

Why not? I bought my AOW card and I am happy I did. I have been on lots of boats from NJ cold and dark to FL drift dives to 114 feet - no issues, no one complaining, I got my monies worth. The course was next to useless for me but I was buying a card to get on the boats that would not let me otherwise... I freely admit it - I did not look for an instructor I did it on vacation and I was not looking to do anything more than I needed to - AOW and Nitrox wrapped up neatly and done.

 

[Jumana Ameeri]

I got mine after 17 dives which seems to be in the range of your mentioned dives so I say go for it !

 

[Soggy_Diver]

I think that the time to go for AOW is when you have basic mastery of Basic Open Water skills. If you have solid (not perfect) control of buoyancy, can stick with a dive buddy, understand how to to use a computer/tables, etc., then go for it. That could be immediately after BOW,or it could be after some additional dives. Decent BOW skills lay the foundation for AOW skills in deep dive, navigation, search and recovery, etc.

I have seen some students show up for AOW struggling to assemble and put on their gear, no buoyancy control, no buddy awareness, and no idea how to use a dive table/computer. They struggle with just managing to dive, and don't really learn the AOW skills well. I think that those students should be routed back into a scuba review.

 

[phoenix31tt]

I have seen some students show up for AOW struggling to assemble and put on their gear, no buoyancy control, no buddy awareness, and no idea how to use a dive table/computer. They struggle with just managing to dive, and don't really learn the AOW skills well. I think that those students should be routed back into a scuba review.

I'm more inclined to believe that those students shouldn't have been certified in the first place...


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[dumpsterDiver]

Sure... let's just hand out cards to students who've received "crappy" training and are not qualified to be admitted to more advanced dives on charters.

Sounds like a great idea.

I don't know why you would interpret my comments as being in support of crappy AOW training?

However, the fact remains that it is still popular and in many cases necessary for many people in order to go diving on recreational charters. My son is now 17 and he has only the most basic certification which was given to him by another instructor when he was 10.

We have not sought any additional scuba training for him. If we start to go on dive charters that require it, he might be forced to "get the card".

This was he and I diving a few weeks ago in 130 ft and then a second dive in 90 or so. Does he need an AOW card?

There has always been a very tenuous relationship between "Qualified" and "Certified" in my opinion.

[video=youtube_share;1TPSZvvYH_c]http://youtu.be/1TPSZvvYH_c[/video]

 

[DevonDiver]

"value" is in the eye of the beholder.

You are forgetting that the card IS worth something - even if the training is crappy. It "allows" divers to be admitted to do more advanced dives on charters. For praactical purposes, it ends up being ESSENTIAL for many sport divers.

Yes, I understand the 'license' mentality. A c-card isn't a 'license', but the scuba industry (in general) does give that impression because they use OW, AOW and Deep diver to primarily set depth limits on dive trips. That's mostly a liability thing.

That mindset then transfers to instructors.... who, failing to understand how they can add tangible value to a course, resort to using the 'license' hoax as a selling point for the course. "The value of doing this course is that you can then dive to X feet/meters...." That's (IMHO) lazy-ass BS... and actually undermines the book teaching on those courses - where divers are counselled to set their own personal, conservative, depth limits for any given dive.

Understanding dive center liability issues aside.... I have little respect for centers or instructors who propagate that 'license' mentality. Especially when it comes to accepting divers onto more advanced dives based on the plastic in their wallet, not their skills in the water.

In my eyes, any dive center that actively promotes new customers completing some form of 'check-out' dive to tangibly evaluate skills and experience prior to 'letting them loose' fun diving is a responsible and ethical operation. Even more so if weak performance in that evaluation leads to counselling for a scuba review, or subsequently limited-challenge fun diving.

 

[scubadada]

I did my AOW at about 75 dives after I had been diving, mostly in Grand Cayman, for a few years. I had a very good instructor and learned a fair amount in my 5 dives. Certification made it much easier to dive in Key Largo, where nobody knew me from Adam. This plan worked out well for me, glad I delayed AOW until I had experience diving. I'm sure it works fine either way but, I dived with a straight through Navy guy on the Duane in Key Largo and he went through his tank in about 20 minutes, had to escort him back to the line to avoid and OOA situation. Training is fine, experience likely trumps it.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I did my AOW at about 75 dives after I had been diving, mostly in Grand Cayman, for a few years. I had a very good instructor and learned a fair amount in my 5 dives. Certification made it much easier to dive in Key Largo, where nobody knew me from Adam. This plan worked out well for me, glad I delayed AOW until I had experience diving. I'm sure it works fine either way but, I dived with a straight through Navy guy on the Duane in Key Largo and he went through his tank in about 20 minutes, had to escort him back to the line to avoid and OOA situation. Training is fine, experience likely trumps it.

Wow that brings back a memory, many years ago I dove with a Navy diver in a quarry. He was unbelievably terrible - it was the first person who really scared me in the water.

 

[Neilwood]

I did my AOW at about 75 dives after I had been diving, mostly in Grand Cayman, for a few years. I had a very good instructor and learned a fair amount in my 5 dives. Certification made it much easier to dive in Key Largo, where nobody knew me from Adam. This plan worked out well for me, glad I delayed AOW until I had experience diving. I'm sure it works fine either way but, I dived with a straight through Navy guy on the Duane in Key Largo and he went through his tank in about 20 minutes, had to escort him back to the line to avoid and OOA situation. Training is fine, experience likely trumps it.

Wow that brings back a memory, many years ago I dove with a Navy diver in a quarry. He was unbelievably terrible - it was the first person who really scared me in the water.

I think these posts prove is not necessarily the training but the person using it that really matters. You can teach two people the same course and have 2 completely different divers come out of it -one that is safe and efficient, the other scary and uncoordinated

 

[CT-Rich]

I did my AOW at about 75 dives after I had been diving, mostly in Grand Cayman, for a few years. I had a very good instructor and learned a fair amount in my 5 dives. Certification made it much easier to dive in Key Largo, where nobody knew me from Adam. This plan worked out well for me, glad I delayed AOW until I had experience diving. I'm sure it works fine either way but, I dived with a straight through Navy guy on the Duane in Key Largo and he went through his tank in about 20 minutes, had to escort him back to the line to avoid and OOA situation. Training is fine, experience likely trumps it.

I am always hesitant about people that talk big, usually a bad omen.