Should Shearwater add Air Integration to its computers?

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Why I, a rec-only diver, chose the Petrel over the Liquivision, which admittedly has the same sort of large, bright screen I was looking for? Here are a few reasons:

(1) I don't know anything about Liquivision as a company. Shearwater participates on this board and seems very upfront when addressing us here. I felt I could understand the founder's vision.
(2) Along the lines of (1), SB posters spoke so highly of Shearwater's customer service. What I absolutely did NOT want, and was willing to pay a premium to avoid, was having to deal with an obstinate manufacturer or distributor in case a repair was needed.
(3) I read similar praise for the intuitive user interface. I HATED my old computer's four tiny mechanical buttons and convoluted button presses and menu structure. It is possible that Liquivision's user interface is just as good, but Liquivision, perhaps unfairly, just didn't get the same volume of reviews on SB, and I didn't want to take the time to research it personally. That SB divers said Shearwater's user interface is awesome was good enough for me.
(4) Anyone with an engineering background who takes one look at the Petrel can immediately appreciate the physical engineering. It reminded me not of "tech diving" so much as it reminded me of an industrial instrument. (If the Hewlett Packard of 40 years ago had built a dive computer, I would have jumped on that for the same reason.) At least on the Petrel, you can see how thick the cover is, that there is a gasket in there, and that it's held on with screws--this may not be the most elegant construction, but it's a proven, age-old system, and I could immediately see why Shearwater might have gone that route instead of developing something fancier. I can't determine how the cover of my Suunto is attached--I'm sure it's quite secure, but I just can't SEE what they did. Same with the Petrel's case--you can see the marks left by the machine tool! The piezo buttons made perfect sense to me--I understand how that works and why it is a good choice for the application.

I don't use the compass, though it looks nifty. I am accustomed to using a mechanical compass, and it has always worked fine for me. If for some reason it were to fail, I would know that immediately, before the dive even begins. I like when I can see something and understand how it works. Though I won't go so far as to say I mistrust digital electronics and am stuck in the analog age, opaque solutions bother me a little. It's a psychological thing.

I don't use the Petrel's Bluetooth feature. I keep a log on paper, and have always enjoyed doing so. I don't log gas consumption.

I don't need to know my gas consumption with great accuracy. My intention is to bring enough gas for the dive at hand. If I were to do a dive where I needed to check my gas every five minutes to ensure my safety, I would draw an inference from that that I need to bring more gas next time, so that I wouldn't need to check my gas every five minutes. I have never used AI, but my wife had AI on her Suunto Cobra, and the more experience she gained, the less frequently she felt she needed to check her gas, to the point where we have both switched to simple SPGs and are satisfied checking them only two or three times during a dive. Again, the analog SPG appeals to the engineer in me. It's age-old technology and eliminated one more thing to be concerned with, however misguided such concern might be. I will never have to give a thought to transmitters and such things, and that gives me peace of mind.

I won't criticize others' desire for AI. I just hope a computer for divers like me remains available.
 
Okay I've held off until now, but my tongue is starting to bleed....

I didn't buy a Petrel because it doesn't have AI, otherwise it ticked all my boxes big screen, allows multiple gasses etc.

My good friend was discussing this only today. He qualified as an IDC staff instructor in 1986, is well respected as the go to guy in both Rec and Tech circles, and is also the first person the police and military in the region turn to. Lets just say he's forgotten more than the vast majority on here (including me) will ever know. He loves his Petrel (And no, the shop he works for doesn't sell it) however in his words he'd love it more if it had AI

My current computer has everything I want it also has Tri Mix and CCR - Do I complain that it's cluttered with needless junk? No. Its just Software code.

You could easily have an option of screens - one graphical for Rec and basic digits for tech, all customised to the needs /desires of the user. Oh hasn't that been done already?

So some Petrel users don't trust AI - but they're happy to have a computer with Bluetooth on board? I'm perfectly capable of plugging in my cable. Why would I need Bluetooth? Its a similar chip as the RX for AI and can equally fault the board and thus the comp.

Andy make a point about endless TX on lots of stages, the confusion and issues. Come-on Andy I expected more from you then that. I'm a mere rec diver but I have 4 TX and yes each 1st has both an SPG and small TX hose. My TX's are colour coded so not that hard to manage which goes where and you still need to let your comp know what gasses you have AI or Not? No one is forcign anyone to have AI but some want the choice

I always thought Tech divers just used bottom timers and Slates, followed a precise dive plan and had no need of computers :wink:

Additional Failure modes *yawn* Come on. You accept that a battery you need to change regularly thus needing to open the case so adding risk that you might get a flood is acceptable, but at the same time TX and hoses are a failure mode to far? Clearly you don't understand failure modes and risk mitigation's otherwise you wouldn't fly (Yes That used to be my job, lets leave it there!)


I do laugh on here when someone asks about a computer and there is a stampede top recommend the Petrel. Usually with people suggestion they buy right the first time. In reality 2-3 years down the line when they are ready to go tech their comp is out of date, and anyway the price of a new comp is insignificant when you consider all the extra purchases of kit needed for tech.

Rec users don't need the Petrel of course they don't, they want the status of the Petrel. It seems Tech users with their arguments don't want a computer that Rec users would use as they want their status too. QED

---------- Post added January 11th, 2016 at 06:44 PM ----------

Failure of an AI transmitter attached to the HP port reduces my available gas.

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Failure of an HP hose and SPG attached to the HP port reduces your available gas too

See the similarity?

The sensing part of an AI TX is pretty robust, my 4 are on small hoses to protect them.


People don't need a Petrel for progression to Tech, more regs, 1st stages, stage/deco tanks, new Wing, twinset or sidemount... Id say that's more important then a computer
 
Did a 25 minute dive yesterday. Checked my SPG twice. Took about 15 seconds each. We're talking about 30 seconds, maybe 40 max. on a 25 minute dive. Still don't get it why AI is so important to some people?
 
But having two HP ports open is double the amount of ways to reduce my available gas.


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I like AI's, why because I do and for those of you that don't that's ok, its a personal choice. I have repeatedly emailed Shearwater asking them to add AI, their response is they believe they would upset and loose the tech divers if they added it and I don't agree but that is what I was told more than once. I own a Liquivision and really like it but if Shearwater added AI I would be one of the first to order one.
 
It is a personal choice, and you like it or want it, that's fine.

Just don't pretend you need it.


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Sorry, it may be a colloquialism on my part.

I wasn't suggesting you said you needed it.

What winds people up, or me up, is when people pretend they actually NEED it.

There isn't a dive, or dive task, on the planet that actually requires AI.


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AJ:
Did a 25 minute dive yesterday. Checked my SPG twice. Took about 15 seconds each. We're talking about 30 seconds, maybe 40 max. on a 25 minute dive. Still don't get it why AI is so important to some people?

What did you do during that dive? Were you actually doing a task or just floating around exploring?

But having two HP ports open is double the amount of ways to reduce my available gas.

This I have to disagree with. If the first stage has a hole in it, it's a failure point. Regardless if it's being utilized for another piece of equipment or not. Your high and low pressure port plugs use o rings just like a hose, button gauge or transmitter. If you want to minimize failure points you would need a first stage with an equal amount of ports for your spg, second, octo and inflator hose (assuming that's what you use). Any extra ports represent failure points, if that's how one views them. Probably should nix the swivel turret too, as that's another failure point.
 
I don't like swivel turrets.

Reducing number of ports is why the DS1 exists.

What has more o-Rings and more chance of failure...

A regulator with an SPG, primary, Octo and inflator. And a blanked off HP and LP port?

Or a regulator with all the above, plus a transmitter?


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https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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