Ccr Diver From Ohio Died In Ginnie Springs Today...

[Brad_Horn]

With luck they'll have a BOV that should be as simple as flipping a lever or turning a switch.

Optima, yes? If so Dive-Rite don't sell them with a BOV so you can likely scrub this as an option for speculation up front. Unless it is fitted with a third party option. If the Optima in question does have a BOV, it might be pertinent to then ask, if this has raised or lowered the units WOB and if the BOVs WOB in OC bailout mode is sufficiently low enough to actually be useful for bailout after a CO2 hit?

Prob a more pertinent subject for speculation is was the Optima in question fitted with a Micropore EAC or Dive-Rite's new re-fillable granular option; which will have a lower scrubber duration. If so, and if the issue is CO2 related, did the diver follow the new guidance from Dive-Rite on the re-fillable scrubbers duration or was the ExtendAir Cartridge duration used? What is the difference?
How much time had the diver logged on their specific scrubber, over how many dives, what profiles etc etc

 

[JohnnyC]

I'd just like accurate info from whatever source is available.

 

[karstdvr]

Frustrating when people are saying "don't post without the details" and then the people with those details don't post the details.

So far I have waded through numerous posts of speculation and fantasy. Are we conditioned as a society to over analyze things when we know really nothing? Yes, look at CNN and other news sites when a tragedy happens. We may only have acorns of information,but the broadcast will continue on for hours based on what-ifs? I agree 100% with accident analysis, and the parties involved need an opportunity to come forward and give their story. Will we see it on forums and social media. Don't know,but with the way some people act on these forums,I doubt you will see a useful posting here or CDF for obvious reasons. I have been involved in cave diving accident body recoveries, it is very stressful, and the last thing you want to do is answer the same questions over and over again to curiosity seekers. If discussion in what-ifs helps with someone's rationalization defense mechanism,so they can say this is probably what happened and won't happen to me, so be it. The truth will come out,but don't be surprised if it doesn't appear on the forums,especially with some of the comments that have been directed at the people involved. Hence, all accidents the truth comes out about the accident,you just won't find it on social media.

 

[nakatomi]

The truth will come out,but don't be surprised if it doesn't appear on the forums,especially with some of the comments that have been directed at the people involved. Hence, all accidents the truth comes out about the accident,you just won't find it on social media.

Which is too bad as openly discussing the causes (and the sequence of events) would help to save lives.
I would like to know what led up to the fatality, what information the examination of the equipment and discussions with the buddy and the rescue divers provided.

This is the third overhead CCR fatality this year (after the one in New Mexico and one in Germany that has not made it into the public yet).
If this trend continues, we will not only see more fatalities but possibly CCR's being banned from some sites too.

Let no good deed go unpunished. There's a pretty vicious attack [...]

With all due respect, I do disagree.
And even if you feel there have been such attacks, why are you bringing them onto the accident forum where it serves zero use?
That's no good, you're adding to the drama yourself and being guilty of what you condemn.

 

[karstdvr]

Which is too bad as openly discussing the causes (and the sequence of events) would help to save lives.
I would like to know what led up to the fatality, what information the examination of the equipment and discussions with the buddy and the rescue divers provided.

.

I agree, and you bring up valid requests. How often do forum discussions melt down into something else, and Godwin's law becomes evoked. For this reason ,more often than not , participants in an accident won't post on forums,so this leaves the discussions based on supposition.

 

[The Chairman]

why are you bringing them onto the accident forum

How the victim was handled is very much a part of the accident. How Ted avoided creating additional victims is also a part of the accident. I don't understand the rationale that would suggest otherwise. It's easy to focus only on the tragic outcome of the victim and miss the entire situation as it unfolded. But then you stilt the learning process if you are so myopic.

 

[Jax]

To summarize from all this --

The displayed symptoms could be hypercania. This could have come from a break-through in the scrubber, or rapid breathing due to a medical even (heart attack), or overworking the loop. The diver bailed to OC (only mentioned a couple of times, so a maybe) but was still incapacitated.

First off I would like to offer my condolences to the family. As I used to be a field training officer for new paramedics in Florida, I'm well aware of the current curriculum. I know for a fact most of the paramedics in this state are woefully under-educated in anything related to diving emergencies (there is a brief paragraph on DCS and AGE). They will all be able to intubate and treat cardiac issues, but very very few would be well versed in hypercapnia vs Oxtox or any other issues.

And the first response, if one gets the diver out, to all of the above is administer O2, bagged if available, and CPR if needed.

Requesting more info - given the situation of four divers, and one willing to go solo, should one immediately leave to call for help? To have the first responders there?
Please don't go into solo versus buddy . . .

 

[kensuf]

I agree, and you bring up valid requests. How often do forum discussions melt down into something else, and Godwin's law becomes evoked. For this reason ,more often than not , participants in an accident won't post on forums,so this leaves the discussions based on supposition.

The internet is often filled with speculation and misinformation. I'd like to use this as an opportunity to reference this post from Boulder John on the Santa Rosa fatality. For those of you that are demanding answers right now, please read the first sentence in John's post over and over until you understand.

Bad News From Santa Rosa Blue Hole

 

[The Chairman]

participants in an accident won't post on forums,

I can think of several reasons for this. Mainly, people like to twist your words and infer malicious intent where there is none. This is especially problematic if they feel that they might be exposing themselves to potential litigation. As I posted earlier, we are a society that lets no good deed go unpunished.

 

[rddvet]

How the victim was handled is very much a part of the accident. How Ted avoided creating additional victims is also a part of the accident. I don't understand the rationale that would suggest otherwise. It's easy to focus only on the tragic outcome of the victim and miss the entire situation as it unfolded. But then you stilt the learning process if you are so myopic.

I read many of those fb posts. I can't say all, but a good percentage. I agree with you that it comes off very badly for the instructor. Comes off as chest thumping, saying "I handled it better when I was in a similar situation." I know the person is well respected so maybe his point is getting lost in his words but that's not how it reads to a very high percentage of people. He probably should have just said nothing. It unfortunately comes off as tasteless and unnecessary.