Cave Ccr Student Dies At Blue Grotto Today

[The Chairman]

I do think it is not the place to publish Names of affected people.

It's one of the facts we know about this incident. Why shouldn't we know it? I'm guessing that you're a friend of hers. I applaud your desire to protect your friend, but it's a part of the public record.

 

[MK1709]

@MK1709 regarding your reply to @kwinter

For example, I have interest in CCR, now I know if an instructor says he's going to put a neoprene cover over my mask for a lights out drill, I'll tell him to shove it. That may not have ever occured in this incident, but nevertheless I learned something, which is the purpose of this forum.

Don't be afraid doing a CCR class.. No instructor will blindfold you doing your MOD 1 up to MOD 3 but if you thing about doing Cavern or up to Full Cave it will happen don't matter if it's on CCR or OC with all instructors and throughout all agencies..

 

[MRKB]

Dear CuzzA this is not what I aiming for.. Please go ahead with different scenarios and what if discussions.. But as long you are stumbling around with assumptions I do think it is not the place to publish Names of affected people.. Thanks

I am not CCR or cave certified (yet) so I don't know any of the people involved. But with a bit of simple google searching I found out the instructors name before it was posted. I also found out her training agency, what courses she teaches and her company. I also found out who her students were on this trip. Saw pictures of them practicing land drills with the neoprene mask covers on as well as pictures of the students doing their open water training. So her name was coming out at some point just as the students names will. Now I have some questions about the things I have found but I will leave it to people who were actually there to bring out the info. Hopefully the questions I am asking myself will be answered in time with the discussion.

 

[rongoodman]

Don't be afraid doing a CCR class.. No instructor will blindfold you doing your MOD 1 up to MOD 3 but if you thing about doing Cavern or up to Full Cave it will happen don't matter if it's on CCR or OC with all instructors and throughout all agencies..

That is directly contradicted by the TDI course standards linked to above.

 

[Reku]

Blackout Masks on CCR are pretty sketchy - I understand what it is trying to achieve but dang even with your mask off diving in a bowl of pudding you can still see the hud/computer and be able to monitor the unit. Short of someone rolling up on you at depth with some wire cutters and cutting all your electronics off you - I just can't see the need for a complete blackout on ccr.

This is very interesting - I await future results.

 

[MK1709]

It's one of the facts we know about this incident. Why shouldn't we know it? I'm guessing that you're a friend of hers. I applaud your desire to protect your friend, but it's a part of the public record.

Dear NutsDoc, please allow me a last statement on your allegation and I will bail out from this thread.. No, I not be a friend with neither dived or trained with that instructor.. But I follow incident & accident treats and forums to maybe learn something out of the incident reports... And as I ask you on the very beginning and event if it would be a fact ... Does the Name of any involved person is really relevant on a threat?? Does this gives you or any people around a something to learn from that fatality? Most serious forums do have a codex.. How would you feel lose one of your students or any familiar and read that names on a thread with lots of speculations? As you see I havent posted anything before I was following a link published on a Cave forum and was really astonished seeing someone giving out and publish very private details.. If someone is interested in personal information and not the case itself they should do that Google research like MRKB did..

 

[CuzzA]

Don't be afraid doing a CCR class.. No instructor will blindfold you doing your MOD 1 up to MOD 3 but if you thing about doing Cavern or up to Full Cave it will happen don't matter if it's on CCR or OC with all instructors and throughout all agencies..

It's not a matter of being afraid, it's a matter of being smart enough to know that another error prone human being is training me and if I'm not equipped with the knowledge to know whether or not they are putting me in danger I could find myself seriously injured or dead.

This lights out neoprene mask cover drill seems quite stupid for all the reasons already mentioned earlier and it would appear that they were at a minimum practicing this drill on the surface during this incident. So despite the fact you say it won't happen your statement seems to be contradictory.

A final thought on the specific mask covering drill on CC, whether or not it led to this fatality... I'm just a young inexperienced open water scuba diver, but the first thought that came to mind when I sat back and thought about it, is that drill is like putting a blindfold on while holding a grenade with your drill sergeant telling you to either try and put the pin back in or simultaneously count down when to throw it before it blows up.... Again, I'd tell the instructor to shove it.

 

[The Chairman]

Blackout Masks on CCR are pretty sketchy

One of the basic tenets of diving: You can call a dive at any time for any reason with no questions asked and no repercussions. This is in effect during your training as well as when you dive for fun. There is only one thing to do if you can't monitor your PPO2: Bail out. Don't hesitate. Don't try to overthink it. Just get off the effin loop. Your butt is on the line.

 

[The Chairman]

please allow me a last statement

As long as you stay on topic, which you have, you're more than welcome to post as you see fit. All of us are.

As for the name, I think it's important to keep track of who is teaching what. If they've done nothing wrong then that should be obvious. If they screwed up, costing someone their life, then that should be known as well. It's a fact, just like the other facts in this incident. The worst thing we could do is to actively or passively obscure the facts.

 

[MK1709]

That is directly contradicted by the TDI course standards linked to above.

No it's not.. please see Page 207

1. Follow a guideline simulating loss of visibility
   1. Simulating zero visibility and using touch contact, following the guideline
      
      TDI is not the only training agency but most of them are pretty close to this..
      The linke guides you to the Full Cave CCR Diver Instruktor Manual