Bp/w Recommendations

[tbone1004]

standard stainless steel plate, with LCD30 wing methinks

 

[cool_hardware52]

WOW Tobin
This really helps a lot. Thanks.
To start, I am just shy of 182 cm tall, medium build.
I dive almost exclusively in salt water (Mediterranean Sea and Red Sea) all year round, which means the temperature of the water can be anywhere from 13° to 35° C. I will either be using a 7mm wetsuit and hood, 3mm hooded vest with a 3mm wetsuit, just a 3mm wetsuit, or just a bathing suit in the mid-summer. Even though it may not be ideal, I will be using the same wing for all my diving. I usually carry the standard stuff - flashlights, spool, safety sausage, spare mask ...etc. On 40 meter dives I sometimes take along a pony.
Even though I own a 15 liter steel tank, I use it mostly when diving with friends in the more remote places, on night dives, or sunrise dives - when the dive centers are closed. Otherwise I use 12 liter aluminum tanks from the dive centers.
Like I mentioned before, I may be doing a technical diving course in the future, but I don't think that should be a "major" consideration.
Being that I tend to need more weight than most (yea I know, I'm still working on that), I would probably prefer the SS plate.
I suppose that about does it. What's the verdict?
Thanks again
Yoni

182 cm is just under 6' so a medium sized plate should be fine unless you are very long waisted, shorter legs, longer torso.

The wing has to be sized for the most buoyant suit. How buoyant is your 7mm suit? Roll it up with out trapping a huge bubble, wrap a weight belt around it and throw it in the water, adjust the lead until it just sinks. Weigh the lead used. Some scuba weights are not as marked.

Keep in mind that personal buoyancy will impact your ballast requirements, but it does not change wrt depth and does not need to be compensated for.

Keeping the cold water wing no larger than required is worthwhile if you want to use one wing for warm and cold water.

You need to narrow down the suit / tank combos. A steel tank with a 3mm suit or swim trunks with an al 80 are both typical applications for lightweight plates, but 7mm suits will benefit from a SS plate.

3mm + buoyant tanks is usually a good application for a Stainless Plate.

"I dive from the equator to the arctic with every thing from swim trunks to a 7mm suit and every tank ever made, and I want one BP&W for all conditions" is just not realistic.

You will have a better experience if you narrow down the range.

Tobin

 

[Spg01]

I originally bought a Golem Gear 35lb BP/W setup. But when it arrived it was not marked on the wing what size it was, no tag or anything written on the wing so I started asking questions. I also remember it hard to actually get in touch with anyone. After asking some questions on Scuba Board I figured out the wing actually had 41 -42 lbs of lift. When I asked the people at Golem about it they would not give any reason why it was not actually a 35. Then it came down to if you don't like it send it back. So I did!

I now have a single and doubles setup from DSS.

Hi
I have decided to get a new BCD and would very much like to go over to a BP/W setup. I do not have a lot to spend, but I know how important it is to get the best quality you can afford.
I was looking at the Golem Gear 35 Lbs SS Combo. It looks well made and is sold at an attractive price. I have never heard of this company before, but after doing some research, they seem to have a good reputation. Most of the info I found though was from quite a few years ago. I would appreciate any and all feedback about this company and their gear (especially from the techs out there).
I was also looking at the Dive Rite setup , which looks good. Although Dive Rite is well known in the US, it is not very popular where I come from.
Scubapro X-Tek Pure Tek Complete System is also on sale.
I am open to all suggestions. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Yoni

 

[yoni]

182 cm is just under 6' so a medium sized plate should be fine unless you are very long waisted, shorter legs, longer torso.

The wing has to be sized for the most buoyant suit. How buoyant is your 7mm suit? Roll it up with out trapping a huge bubble, wrap a weight belt around it and throw it in the water, adjust the lead until it just sinks. Weigh the lead used. Some scuba weights are not as marked.

Keep in mind that personal buoyancy will impact your ballast requirements, but it does not change wrt depth and does not need to be compensated for.

Keeping the cold water wing no larger than required is worthwhile if you want to use one wing for warm and cold water.

You need to narrow down the suit / tank combos. A steel tank with a 3mm suit or swim trunks with an al 80 are both typical applications for lightweight plates, but 7mm suits will benefit from a SS plate.

3mm + buoyant tanks is usually a good application for a Stainless Plate.

"I dive from the equator to the arctic with every thing from swim trunks to a 7mm suit and every tank ever made, and I want one BP&W for all conditions" is just not realistic.

You will have a better experience if you narrow down the range.

Tobin

LOL. OK I admit that it's not an ideal situation, but don't you think you're exaggerating slightly. I wish I could dive around the world and use every tank ever made, but I dive only in my area, and use only 2 types of tanks.
I don't quite understand what you mean by "narrowing down the range". I should either not dive in the winter or not wear a 7mm wetsuit and freeze to death? I surely don't have the means to buy a variety of BP&Ws to fit my every need, and to tell you the truth, I know very few people here who do.
I totally understand what you are saying, and your thinking. I also totally understand that what I buy won't fit every situation perfectly, but it is what it is. If it will fit most of the situations perfectly, and the others a little less perfect, I'll be a happy diver.

I probably dive more in the warmer months than in mid-winter, which means that I will be mostly in the 3mm wetsuit or a bathing suit. Like I said before, even though I own a 15 liter steel tank, I use the 12 liter aluminum more often. But I don't want to get something that will be totally unusable with my 15L tank and 7mm wetsuit.

Please excuse me if I ask a silly newbie question but would it be so terrible if I used a SS plate with a 3mm suit or swim trunks? I know it may not be ideal, but would it be so bad that it would totally mess up my dive?
Thanks

 

[tbone1004]

so. here is what is going on, this is slightly exaggerated, but not terribly so.
Warm water, swim trunks, steel tank. SS backplate makes you dangerously overweighted. With an aluminum tank, you shouldn't need a wing at all, so you want one that can comfortably keep you at the surface, so a 20lb wing is more than enough. With a large steel tank, say a 17l, you are compensating for 10lbs of air that you're going to breathe so you NEED a wing. Add in a stainless steel backplate, and you are dangerously overweighted for that environment.

Cold water, 7mm farmer john wetsuit, big steel tank, it is quite possible to need close to 40lbs of lift in the wing to compensate for the swing. A 40lb wing on an 8" diameter tank, is very different than on an AL80 in the caribbean, and as such you shouldn't use a wing quite that big in both environments. Now, the reason we have to ask for the ballast numbers you have, is because if say the 30lb wing is enough for your winter environment, you can easily use that in the caribbean, it is just slightly less ideal, but not unsafe. Requiring a lightweight plate for single tank diving is usually limited to steel tank use in warm water with no exposure protection in my experience, but most divers that dive in cold water, say most of Europe or the West Coast will have two wings, one for their local diving environment in the 40lb range, and one in the 20lb range for travel diving. If the 30lb wing is enough, it is an OK compromise to have one wing, but if it isn't enough, the 40lb wing is really far too large for swim trunk diving.

 

[cool_hardware52]

LOL. OK I admit that it's not an ideal situation, but don't you think you're exaggerating slightly. I wish I could dive around the world and use every tank ever made, but I dive only in my area, and use only 2 types of tanks.
I don't quite understand what you mean by "narrowing down the range". I should either not dive in the winter or not wear a 7mm wetsuit and freeze to death? I surely don't have the means to buy a variety of BP&Ws to fit my every need, and to tell you the truth, I know very few people here who do.
I totally understand what you are saying, and your thinking. I also totally understand that what I buy won't fit every situation perfectly, but it is what it is. If it will fit most of the situations perfectly, and the others a little less perfect, I'll be a happy diver.

I probably dive more in the warmer months than in mid-winter, which means that I will be mostly in the 3mm wetsuit or a bathing suit. Like I said before, even though I own a 15 liter steel tank, I use the 12 liter aluminum more often. But I don't want to get something that will be totally unusable with my 15L tank and 7mm wetsuit.

Please excuse me if I ask a silly newbie question but would it be so terrible if I used a SS plate with a 3mm suit or swim trunks? I know it may not be ideal, but would it be so bad that it would totally mess up my dive?
Thanks

A stainless plate in thin or no exposure suits and or with steel tanks will over weight the diver. Being overweighted is bad, being over weighted with no means to drop the ballast is worse, and unsafe. In addition being over weighted makes buoyancy control more difficult.

To reduce / avoid being overweighted with thin suits and or negative steel cylinders you need a light weight (much less negative Kydex back plate. (others offer aluminum plates for the same reason)

With thick suits and / or buoyant tanks the ballast that a SS plate provides up over your buoyant lungs and along side a buoyant cylinder is huge benefit. Using a Kydex plate when a SS plate is appropriate leaves most adding ballast via a weight belt, and that usually end up with a diver who is heads up, hips down, not in horizontal trim. Doing so effectively defeats one of the primary benefits of a BP&W, better trim, or more correctly more easily achieved improved trim.

Wings. All BC's are used to replace the buoyancy your exposure suit loses as it compresses. More suit requires more wing. Wings aren't sized based on the frequency with which you dive warm vs cold. One cold water dive a year means you need a wing that can compensate for the maximum possible change in buoyancy of your most buoyant suit.

To meet your range of applications with a single set of gear you need a lightweight (Kydex) plate with a fairly large wing. Probably something in the 26-30 lbs range.

This wing will be larger than you need for warm water, and that leads to more effort venting, less stability and more drag.

The kydex plate means you will need a weight belt (or other ballast) for most of your diving.

How to "narrow" the range?

Use at least a 3mm suit. If that's too warm leave it 1/2 unzipped and "pump" water through the suit if needed.

Stick with buoyant tanks in warm water. That's usually easily achieved as most rentals tend to be al 80's

Doing these two things means a SS Plate will work for warm and cold water.

Doing a careful check of the buoyancy of your cold water suit allows the selection of a cold water wing that is no larger than necessary. While this wing will still be larger than a pure warm water wing could be, it will most likely be only a bit bigger than ideal.

People are attracted to BP&W's because they want a better performing BC. Try not to end up with a sports car fitted with giant truck tires.....

Tobin

 

[sea_otter]

I am a big fan of STA's under certain circumstances, however for most recreational divers, they are not necessary.

I wonder if you could elaborate on this statement. Based upon what I've been told, an STA is needed to keep the tank stable and prevent it from being "wobbly", even in warm waters where the weighted STA is undesirable. Is this untrue?

What are the advantages of an STA (other than a place to add weights) versus strapping cam bands directly to the BP?

 

[Lorenzoid]

I wonder if you could elaborate on this statement. Based upon what I've been told, an STA is needed to keep the tank stable and prevent it from being "wobbly", even in warm waters where the weighted STA is undesirable. Is this untrue?

Some wings, such as the DSS single-tank wings, have a built-in stabilizer that serves the same purpose as an STA: stabilizing the tank and preventing it from wobbling. They are sometimes referred to as "STA-less." So, you don't NEED an STA if you are using such a wing.

What are the advantages of an STA (other than a place to add weights) versus strapping cam bands directly to the BP?

A place to add weights is indeed one reason. Another reason I have heard as to why some people prefer to use an STA rather than an STA-less wing is that they like that the STA keeps the tank valve and first stage a little further away from the back of their head. Also, I suppose cost might be a factor: an STA-less wing might cost more than an ordinary wing plus STA.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I wonder if you could elaborate on this statement. Based upon what I've been told, an STA is needed to keep the tank stable and prevent it from being "wobbly", even in warm waters where the weighted STA is undesirable. Is this untrue?

What are the advantages of an STA (other than a place to add weights) versus strapping cam bands directly to the BP?

Single
Tank
Adapter

I try to avoid "adapters" whenever possible. STA's were originally required because the only wings produced lacked camband slots.

Poorly designed "direct mount" (meaning no STA) systems can results in wobbly tanks, but properly designed direct mount systems are *very* secure. DSS Stability Video

The key reason I'm not in favor of STA's is the tendency for divers to leave the STA bolted through their wing and plate. That leaves the wing wrapped around the plate for transport. cleanup and storage.

The DSS approach makes removal of the wing easy and fast with no loose parts. Keeping your wing away from the plate greatly reduces the chances of a pinch flat.

Tobin

 

[tbone1004]

quick history lesson. STA's came out before backplates had cam band slots, so what they did was allow you to use your doubles plate with a single tank. Same bolt hole spacing etc etc. This happened in the 80's sometime courtesy of Dive Rite.

Deep Sea Supply has the only STA-Less wing design that I like. Most use rubber tubes to act like a wheel chock between the plate and the tank, but they tend to skew. Tobin integrated a STA into the wing design and it's brilliant. His is the only one that allows the wing to come off without adjusting the cam bands, also brilliant, and something that is thoroughly annoying with other wing designs.

Now, the advantages of an STA are as follows. If you are on a pitching boat deck, and you are doing multiple dives with different tanks, having an STA on each tank, and moving the backplate and wing from one to the other