New Diver: 3000' Altitude dive as first post certification dive?
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OP
filmguy123
Contributor
Yup. Dive 1 and 2 were a descent to 15 feet for skills tests, and then back up. We had 3" visibility so they didn't feel it was safe to do any exploratory dives. (Plankton bloom, PNW).
Dive 3 was about 10-15 minutes to 35 feet. Dive 4 was 50 feet, 22 minutes. Visibility was nice at about 15-20 feet viz for these two, below about 20 feet where viz opened up.
As such my current experience is quite... limited.
Dive 3 was about 10-15 minutes to 35 feet. Dive 4 was 50 feet, 22 minutes. Visibility was nice at about 15-20 feet viz for these two, below about 20 feet where viz opened up.
As such my current experience is quite... limited.
On what dive did you do your CESA?
How long were dives 1 and 2?
What were the skills you did on dives 1 and 2?
How long were dives 1 and 2?
What were the skills you did on dives 1 and 2?
OP
filmguy123
Contributor
Before OWW, we had 5x 1 hour pool sessions with a class of 10 students. I felt it was semi rushed with a ton of practice time for skills.
For OWW:
Dive day 1: lots of surface skills (remove/replace BC, weight belt, inflate SMB, snorkel/reg exchange, tired diver tow, cramp release, etc.). Surface compass navigation. Very little under water. For the underwater time of Dive day 1 we did the following:
Dive 1: descent to 15-20 feet to bottom. Very little visibility. Partial mask flood and clear. Regulator recovery. Total time on bottom not counting descent and ascent time, maybe 2 minutes.
Dive 2: descent to 15-20 feet to bottom. Very little visibility. Full mask flood and clear, buddy air share. About 2 minutes on bottom, again.
No swimming around or finning about.
Dive Day 2:
Dive 3: Mask removal and replace. CESA - But not the best. A little rushed, we did the mask removal and replace, and then underwater ascended with regulator in mouth locked arm to arm with instructor, exhaling one breath. I don't feel like this is anywhere close to a mastered skill, as it was a little confusing what exactly we were switching to do under water. Then we proceeded to our exploratory dive, which was short, I think 12 minutes at 33 feet was the exact figure.
Dive 4: Full exploratory dive. 22 minutes, 50 feet.
This is my current total experience.
I now have a DSS BP/W here that I have yet to use. Plan was to go to a pool to dial that in for a couple hours in board shorts, and just swim around and practice skills on my own from OWW (there's a LDS with a pool here available for that sort of thing).
Then I would to the drysuit cert: 1x pool session, adding the drysuit to the above, and then the 2 check out dives.
And then I would be on a weekend dive trip in drysuit with BP/W on a minor altitude dive.
I could do the dive in a wetsuit. I am open to that. I would prefer to do it in the comfort of a drysuit, but if I am going to be task loaded and it would be safer to do it in a wetsuit, I could do that. The temps are sub 40 degrees, it would be a 7mm wetsuit + 7mm farmer john for 14mm in the core. Doable, not ideal. Also paying for a wetsuit rental when I already own the drysuit, but safety trumps that if this is a concern.
For OWW:
Dive day 1: lots of surface skills (remove/replace BC, weight belt, inflate SMB, snorkel/reg exchange, tired diver tow, cramp release, etc.). Surface compass navigation. Very little under water. For the underwater time of Dive day 1 we did the following:
Dive 1: descent to 15-20 feet to bottom. Very little visibility. Partial mask flood and clear. Regulator recovery. Total time on bottom not counting descent and ascent time, maybe 2 minutes.
Dive 2: descent to 15-20 feet to bottom. Very little visibility. Full mask flood and clear, buddy air share. About 2 minutes on bottom, again.
No swimming around or finning about.
Dive Day 2:
Dive 3: Mask removal and replace. CESA - But not the best. A little rushed, we did the mask removal and replace, and then underwater ascended with regulator in mouth locked arm to arm with instructor, exhaling one breath. I don't feel like this is anywhere close to a mastered skill, as it was a little confusing what exactly we were switching to do under water. Then we proceeded to our exploratory dive, which was short, I think 12 minutes at 33 feet was the exact figure.
Dive 4: Full exploratory dive. 22 minutes, 50 feet.
This is my current total experience.
I now have a DSS BP/W here that I have yet to use. Plan was to go to a pool to dial that in for a couple hours in board shorts, and just swim around and practice skills on my own from OWW (there's a LDS with a pool here available for that sort of thing).
Then I would to the drysuit cert: 1x pool session, adding the drysuit to the above, and then the 2 check out dives.
And then I would be on a weekend dive trip in drysuit with BP/W on a minor altitude dive.
I could do the dive in a wetsuit. I am open to that. I would prefer to do it in the comfort of a drysuit, but if I am going to be task loaded and it would be safer to do it in a wetsuit, I could do that. The temps are sub 40 degrees, it would be a 7mm wetsuit + 7mm farmer john for 14mm in the core. Doable, not ideal. Also paying for a wetsuit rental when I already own the drysuit, but safety trumps that if this is a concern.
Thanks for the report.
Based on what you report, Dives 1-2-3 were not taught to standards, and if you've left nothing out, Dive 4 was also not to standards. The biggest problem is the bottom time; a training dive is supposed to be 20 mins minimum (or 5/8 of a tank). You should not be arm-in-arm for the CESA; is that how you did it in the pool? An exploration of the site is one of the standards for dives 1-2-3. You did no compass skills. On dive 3 you did not hover.
Perhaps you left out some information.
Perhaps your instructors were inept, inexperienced, or careless, perhaps all three.
Perhaps PADI should know the details of your experience.
Based on what you report, Dives 1-2-3 were not taught to standards, and if you've left nothing out, Dive 4 was also not to standards. The biggest problem is the bottom time; a training dive is supposed to be 20 mins minimum (or 5/8 of a tank). You should not be arm-in-arm for the CESA; is that how you did it in the pool? An exploration of the site is one of the standards for dives 1-2-3. You did no compass skills. On dive 3 you did not hover.
Perhaps you left out some information.
Perhaps your instructors were inept, inexperienced, or careless, perhaps all three.
Perhaps PADI should know the details of your experience.
OP
filmguy123
Contributor
I started dive 4 with 1900 psi and ended with 900 psi. I was somewhat limited in dive time in 3 and 4 by my buddy, who used his air much faster (he started with 2200psi and ended with 800psi).
We did not do CESA arm to arm in the pool, which is why I was confused as to what we were doing in the OW version. I think this was due to the visibility.
We did compass skills on surface, but very little underwater. By very little, I mean we were told simply on dive 4 to "keep an eye on our compass." But we did spend time on this at surface and during snorkeling.
We technically checked the list for "buddy dive planning" on dive 4, but I would say no. We were told to "discuss with our buddy what we wanted to do, and how deep". So I said to my buddy, "how deep?" and he said he was more concerned about working on buoyancy, etc. then depth. I said fair enough, so we decided on "50 feet" and agreed if he felt good to continue to 60 feet. Our DM asked us how deep and we told him. That was the extent of our "dive plan" - no tables or charts, maps, or anything of the sort. I was expecting something a bit more in depth for "planning a dive" than asking an acquaintance how many feet he wanted to descent to.
What is the hover suppose to look like on Dive 3? We never worked on this with our instructor. When we went for our 12 minute exploratory dive, we were given a few basic tips on buoyancy and instructed to work on this. So in that sense, we sort of hovered as we explored.
We did not do CESA arm to arm in the pool, which is why I was confused as to what we were doing in the OW version. I think this was due to the visibility.
We did compass skills on surface, but very little underwater. By very little, I mean we were told simply on dive 4 to "keep an eye on our compass." But we did spend time on this at surface and during snorkeling.
We technically checked the list for "buddy dive planning" on dive 4, but I would say no. We were told to "discuss with our buddy what we wanted to do, and how deep". So I said to my buddy, "how deep?" and he said he was more concerned about working on buoyancy, etc. then depth. I said fair enough, so we decided on "50 feet" and agreed if he felt good to continue to 60 feet. Our DM asked us how deep and we told him. That was the extent of our "dive plan" - no tables or charts, maps, or anything of the sort. I was expecting something a bit more in depth for "planning a dive" than asking an acquaintance how many feet he wanted to descent to.
What is the hover suppose to look like on Dive 3? We never worked on this with our instructor. When we went for our 12 minute exploratory dive, we were given a few basic tips on buoyancy and instructed to work on this. So in that sense, we sort of hovered as we explored.
Dont get me started. I spoke to @filmguy123 right after his course and had to have a lie-down afterwards to recover the blood pressure. I think the one saving grace is that he is very tech and detail oriented and has been prepping for a long time for this course. He may have learned in spite of his instruction not because of it.
Also, his C-card should have ScubaBoard as the instructor of record.
Im really worried about his course mates, those are accidents waiting to happen I suspect.
Also, his C-card should have ScubaBoard as the instructor of record.
Im really worried about his course mates, those are accidents waiting to happen I suspect.
+1
Most go from there to Caribbean reef dives with no hard bottom or wrecks in Asia, in rented gear only to be buddied up with a similar graduate of substandard instruction or like me, (4yrs ago) someone who hasn't dove in 7 yrs following OW.
All I needed to show was mask removal and replacement, reg recovery and replacement and buoyancy in a pool over 15 minutes and was good to go. This was Cozumel and 60 dives ago...
Filmguy, good on you homeschool! 40F is cold, take the drysuit. Grab one of the other students and practice what both of you need. You know how it works, only experience will teach you more...well that and hopefully a great drysuit instructor. Tell him you would like to do AOW at the same time. It's not that much of a leap if you are comfortable. Now go jump in lake!
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