Fins and leg cramps..any relation? Need help.

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...so am I reading that right in that I need to be pointing my toes when doing leg exercises? I seem to remember now that some cramps do happen when finning with toes pointed

If you can't hyperextend your ankle like this:
plantarflex.jpg
you will have issues with flutter and dolphin kicks. Among them the foot pocket grinding on your toes, this is where Force Fin's foot strap really shines (FFs are also great for disposing of your disposable income).

The other problem is fin blade is going to slip sideways. The muscles needed to keep it straight are normally under-developed and prone to cramping, foot pocket that's too wide is going to make the problem much worse. Split fins alleviate that somewhat by letting the "inside" and "outside" of the blade flex separately (you do of course lose some power that way).

I don't know of anything other that fins that will exercise those exact muscles just right. :(
 
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I have tried the banana thing, doesn't work (and I love nanners too!)

I feel like my fins fit me very well, I have a narrow foot and there is no movement in the foot bed at all--I used to wear booties but with all the travel weight restrictions I have pared down the weight and honestly don't know why I didn't try full fins sooner, they are so much easier on a dive boat.

Pebbles, that is some interesting reading....so am I reading that right in that I need to be pointing my toes when doing leg exercises? I seem to remember now that some cramps do happen when finning with toes pointed--and you are telling me focus more on bending the knees. Interesting! Thanks so much!

The problem many people have, is that they have never trained the range of motion where their foot is fully pointed...the calf muscles are not only weak in this range of motion that has never been worked, but the perfusion in this area is poor as well. One of the many effects of intense bicycle training( like intervals) and of doing calf raises at the gym (to absolute maximum contraction/max toe pointing at end of calf raise) is increased perfusion in this area of the muscle...peripheral adaptations to training. Doing intervals on the bike, and supersets in the gym, will cause neo-vascularization ( you get better blood flow and gas exchange in your calf muscles.....less likelihood of cramping). *** As in the earlier post, for cycling to be optimally utilized for fin swimming, it needs to be with a higher seat position than normal for cyclists....it needs to utilize an extreme toe point at the bottom of the pedal stroke, and there needs to be a push forward going on with the quads on the upper part of the stroke, and a pulling back on the lower part with the other leg, at the same time....this is truly a "neuromuscular" conditioning, as the coordination required to do this optimally is extreme , and once learned, is so similar to what we need to do with fin swimming that it becomes a very natural feeling .

When Dan began training kids to snorkel in the Project Seahorse program with Palm Beach County, he noticed that a significant percentage of the kids would kick with their feet at constant 90 degree angles...like the angle you stand at. It seems there is a percentage of people that have either limited flexibility, and or limited calf strength in anything other than this 90 degree angle they have developed strength in from walking. When they attempt to deviate from this well worked 90 degree angle, to the maximum pointing extension, they don't have the strength or flexibility to accomplish this...Those with this issue could try, and cramp, or just fail to go beyond the 90 degree angle.

And of course , many of the kids instantly went to the extreme toe pointing with no problems whatsoever. They ended up with a massive advantage in fin swimming from day one.

This gets into a much bigger discussion of course...something Dan really needs to be doing,not me....I'm really just parroting :)
But one of the really cool things you get from the optimal toe pointing, is the "Kick and glide". It is crucial to efficiency in fin swimming. You can't glide, if you can't toe point. If you can't glide, you will never be efficient in the water. Imagine riding a bicycle with the brakes on all the time!
 
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Leg cramps could be a sign of Magnesium or Potassium deficiency. I started getting "strange" leg and even foot cramps. I found that taking 400 mg of Magnesium is preventing and relieving it.

They can also be caused by a Vitamin D insufficiency. I don't eat dairy products or eggs and that's where we get a lot of our vitamin D so I take 4000iu D3 daily. Don't forget to add sunshine :) My magnesium and potassium levels are already OK.

Also, I have found that various fins may distribute the pressure while kicking to a different part of your foot. My Scubapro Jet Fins seem to put the pressure higher up on my instep where my foot is stronger which makes it easier for me to swim longer and, when necessary, much harder and faster. Not only that but they fit into my carry-on :)
 
JamesBon--interesting! I just realized that the last time I had my blood tested in a physical I was Vitamin D insufficient! OMG! Now you have me wondering..... I love my jet fins too--I have never tried split fins but maybe I should.
 
No matter your physical abilities, nothing replaces training. You wouldn't expect to just go out and run a marathon. I recently visited the Washington Monument and climbed the 897 steps, that was a job and I felt the strain on my legs. I swim and ride 12-15 miles regularly on my bike, but that did not prepare me for climbing up 555 feet of stairs. I saw a lot of people who couldn't make it to the top. Diving is no different, you have to use the muscles involved in finning to build up endurance and condition. I train in my pool. You can do exercises on dry land also. I have never had an issue and I use the flutter kick almost exclusively. Our motto when I was in the military was "train hard, fight easy"!
 
Hi Tom: Potassium is the electrolyte that repolarizes (e.g. resets) muscle cells for another contraction cycle. A potassium deficiency is more likely to generate muscle fatigue/weakness than actual cramps. Likewise, this is why potassium levels low enough to cause problems with your skeletal muscles are often associated with heart arrhythmias as well. I would not be surprised that if when you started taking potassium supplements, you may have also changed your overall diet or hydration state.

Now with all of that said, you are absolutely correct! :) There is a lot of variation in physiology among individuals and we still don't have a full understanding of why muscle cramps occur. At the end of the day if you find that supplements do the trick for you, then that's what matters!
Haven't changed diet (my wife cooks good....) or hydration. Never had muscle fatigue. But hey, like you said what works, works. Split fins (seem to) rule.......
 
I have always had a problem cramping. I tend to just run on the dehydrated side of things and I can sweat more than anyone you have ever seen. Bananas help, hydration helps, never really tried supplements. On land, either plain yellow mustard or dill pickle juice will provide quick relief.

On a dive boat I discovered my miracle cure on our last dive trip....coconut water. I was having problems with quad cramps and calf cramps. They were only made worse as soon as I would drop in and wetsuit would fill with cooler water. I started drinking 2 coconut waters (maybe 12-16 oz each) before my 1st dive and on the surface interval and the cramps were GONE! I have never had an hour dive where there wasn't either a full on cramp or that feeling where you are right on the verge. The coconut water solved it.

There is pineapple flavored that is actually pretty good. Everyone is different, this works for me.

Good luck,
Jay
 
Haven't changed diet (my wife cooks good....) or hydration. Never had muscle fatigue. But hey, like you said what works, works. Split fins (seem to) rule.......

And that is the beauty (e.g. frustration) of understanding physiology.... Although we have a fantastic understanding of basic physiological principals, the same rule doesn't apply to everyone!
 
On a dive boat I discovered my miracle cure on our last dive trip....coconut water.

Coconut milk contains both sugar and lipids (e.g. fatty acids), which is what fuels ATP production for muscle contraction. I never thought of it before, but it sounds like a nearly perfect drink for the dive boat! I might have to try this.

Now, referencing my previous posts, clearly jayfarmlaw is the perfect physiological specimen and follows all the right physiogical principals! Not sure what's wrong with the rest of you (complete tongue-in-cheek, of course!) :)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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