What do you think about light weight self propelled devices?

[kelemvor]

It would be interesting to see another Tahoe benchmark session that included this. TBM has included recreational scooters (including the seadoo) in the past. Although they haven't done it in 5 years. Maybe the project is dead?

 

[kelemvor]

Plus the fact that you can use this same motor if you like other water sport ,kayak or SUP I think sounds like a reallt cool feature!

I guess for someone that engages in those it might be interesting. Not sure about SUP, isn't the entire point of SUP to get exercise?

 

[Damselfish]

I guess for someone that engages in those it might be interesting. Not sure about SUP, isn't the entire point of SUP to get exercise?

It might be amusing to use one with my SUP, kind of like those assist motors for a bike, though I'm not sure how practical it would be. You might need to be careful at what point you run into the rules on motorized watercraft. May vary state to state but Mass says "All boats 14 feet or greater in length that are designed for use with a motor, or that use a motor at any time, must be titled." Includes things like canoes with a trolling motor.. Not clear if mounting vs somehow handheld makes a difference? (My SUPs and kayaks are all under 14 so I'm in the clear.

 

[kelemvor]

It might be amusing to use one with my SUP, kind of like those assist motors for a bike, though I'm not sure how practical it would be. You might need to be careful at what point you run into the rules on motorized watercraft. May vary state to state but Mass says "All boats 14 feet or greater in length that are designed for use with a motor, or that use a motor at any time, must be titled." Includes things like canoes with a trolling motor.. Not clear if mounting vs somehow handheld makes a difference? (My SUPs and kayaks are all under 14 so I'm in the clear.

Man, I would pay a decent sum to see the registrar guy's face when somebody walks in to register a SUP!

 

[sunnyboy]

...You can keep your scooters, they're for lazy asses.

A Piranna P1 is 25lbs. While that's not nothing, it's lighter than an al-80 stage bottle. Heavy is a relative term. Heavy in comparison 5 pounds compared to 25 lugging out side the water can be heavy maybe more to my wife then to me but it is still a weight difference. The biggest difference that I saw was the price 600 for a kick starter price for the bixpy jet(which you can also use the motor and attach it to other water craft (SUP or kayak). The price for the Piranha is almost $5000.oo thats crazy!!! It just way over priced and I could not justify comparing something like that. For that price it should also come with automatic wings so I could fly if I wanted too!

Well, let's see. I got a P1 because I do a lot of shore diving around here. One fun dive is 8min swim parallel to shore, then at the point turn 30deg and 8 min swim to the sunken dry docks. Bottom is mostly mud until you get to the dry docks. Diving a rebreather with bailout, I'd rather have a scooter to make that leg of the trip faster and give me more time on the dry docks. (there are 4 in total strung out over 200ft on the bottom).

Second dive I have not done yet as it's a 1/2 mile swim to the sunken 737 airplane. Normally considered a boat dive but totally do-able with a scooter and rebreather. And yes, worst case I could swim the thing home - it would just be a very long, boring swim.

No pool toy can do that type of real dive. You need something with strength and durablility (a.k.a. speed & battery duration). The battery cost is probably 1/2 the cost of the P1. Again, *real* batteries are not cheap with the current chemistries.

What's really funny is how the pool toy folks are fighting the real dive folks when it's pretty clear we are talking apples and oranges.

The other problem with scooters is they are designed to get you somewhere quicker than swimming the boring bits. If the bits aren't boring, then I'd swim them and leave the scooter at home.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

"All boats 14 feet or greater in length that are designed for use with a motor, or that use a motor at any time, must be titled." Includes things like canoes with a trolling motor.. Not clear if mounting vs somehow handheld makes a difference? (My SUPs and kayaks are all under 14 so I'm in the clear.

Depends on where you live - if you live in NJ

If you need to register a boat more than 12 feet in length

Visit your local MVC Agency
Bring the title and acceptable proof of age and identification
Complete the application for boat registration (form BA-51)
Pay the required registration fee

 

[Z Gear]

Speaking from the viewpoint of someone in a two Dive X household, I would welcome an alternative to the usual DPV for recreational diving.

We don't use ours as much as we could (given the investment). Our usual diving is a 2 day 6 tank over night trip staying aboard. Our DPV's are bulky and cumbersome taking up lots of room even in my F150. Batteries are a big investment, so we only have 2 each. recharging overnight is not an option so we must pick our dives carefully (assuming 1 hour run time with spare capacity) Changing the batteries over is just another hassle especially on a rolling boat.

There is a gap in the market, for something between the plastic toys and the hardcore DPV. It should be robust but light weight, have a max depth of 50m/150ft and just have the power for a single tank diver for a 1 hour dive. Ideally it would have a fast recharge rate ideally 90 - 120 mins, with of course the right price point.

It doesn't need to be capable of caves or technical diving as there are products already out there.. If somethign like that came along I'd be interest for sure.

Good choice of words in that there seems to be " a gap in the market" for some smaller lighter cheaper and if possible a higher rating in depth ( hopefully this will not affect pricing to much). But overall this is what I kind of thinking as well.
Now that I have seen this item I am getting more interested and hopefully I can test it soon and post.
FrankG
www.zgearinc.com

 

[Z Gear]

Well, let's see. I got a P1 because I do a lot of shore diving around here. One fun dive is 8min swim parallel to shore, then at the point turn 30deg and 8 min swim to the sunken dry docks. Bottom is mostly mud until you get to the dry docks. Diving a rebreather with bailout, I'd rather have a scooter to make that leg of the trip faster and give me more time on the dry docks. (there are 4 in total strung out over 200ft on the bottom).

Second dive I have not done yet as it's a 1/2 mile swim to the sunken 737 airplane. Normally considered a boat dive but totally do-able with a scooter and rebreather. And yes, worst case I could swim the thing home - it would just be a very long, boring swim.

No pool toy can do that type of real dive. You need something with strength and durablility (a.k.a. speed & battery duration). The battery cost is probably 1/2 the cost of the P1. Again, *real* batteries are not cheap with the current chemistries.

What's really funny is how the pool toy folks are fighting the real dive folks when it's pretty clear we are talking apples and oranges.

The other problem with scooters is they are designed to get you somewhere quicker than swimming the boring bits. If the bits aren't boring, then I'd swim them and leave the scooter at home.

No I don't disagree with you on the differences. You are correct in that one is superior for power, time depth etc.. But there seems to be a gap in the market (as Diving Dubai mentioned) which some divers are interested in, perhaps this market will be content a smaller ( yet not as powerful) lighter not to mention lest costly device. It will all depend on the overall test with scuba gear and I intend to do just that.

Frank G
www.zgearinc.com

 

[Z Gear]

As an owner of two Apollo scooters, I can assure you that there is no way that this product will be able pull a scuba diver through the water at any decent speed for any reasonable time. Forget it!!!

We will have to wait and see. But I will have some one video taping me along side for the purpose of validation of the ability for this device to propel a "Scuba Diver" through the water.

Frank G
www.zgearinc.com

 

[kelemvor]

No I don't disagree with you on the differences. You are correct in that one is superior for power, time depth etc.. But there are also draw backs that some are willing to for go in order to get lighter less comber some and not to mention PRICE!!!

It's cheaper than a "tech" scooter.

Comparing recreational scooters to technical scooters is a waste of time for anything other than highlighting that they're not comparable in any way.

It's quite a bit more expensive than other recreational scooters that it compares more closely with. If they're aiming to be the cheapest in their segment, they're going to have to get the price under (or at least close to) the $399 that seadoo gti sells for ($450 msrp, $399 at most stores).

Otherwise you're paying nearly twice as much for a slower device with less range whose only advantage is being 14 lbs lighter on land.

I know, there are some for whom price is no object, and others who consider $350 money well spent to drop 14 lbs dry weight (0lbs in the water).

It might mean trouble for pegasus thruster. That scooter is far more expensive ($4k on leisurepro) slower, same battery life, and heavier. Pegasus does go far deeper with a rating for 325'. I doubt anyone going to 325 is going to be using anything other than fins or a technical scooter.

So, there IS a market for this, but It's already pretty saturated. I think these guys have an uphill battle. Especially with the name recognition (and retail outlets) that seadoo enjoys or the well placed marketing spots that pegasus buys.