PADI Self Reliant Diver with Spare Air?

[VikingDives]

I saw a PADI self reliant diver class going on last weekend and the student was using a Spare Air canister for the redundant air supply. I am not trying to start a spare death debate here - but is I can't find the equipment standards or the instructor manual online, but I'm wondering if that's considered "good enough" for the course.

 

[WarrenZ]

Spare air wouldn't have been enough in my solo course.

 

[jboneng]

What kind of back mount setup did they have? doubles with iso manifold? single?
I don't know the PADI standards, but common sense tells me that to relay on just a spare air as your only backup gas is very short sighted, especially for solo diving.

 

[VikingDives]

What kind of back mount setup did they have? doubles with iso manifold? single?

One AL 80 was all I saw. I overheard them discussing the use of a redundant air source under water. The student was talking about how long the air had lasted, but I didn't see a pony bottle. I noticed the spare air bottle a minute later.

 

[tursiops]

The PADI Instructor Guide requires for Student Equipment, among other things:
"Redundant gas source – pony cylinder, twin cylinders with isolation valve or sidemount configuration. Redundant gas
supply must be configured so that the diver can access it with one hand."

The SDI course requirement is:
"One of the following must be used to provide an additional independent regulator attached to an air source:
pony cylinder, twin cylinders with isolation, H-valve, independent doubles, or SpareAir™"

This is a point in favor of the PADI course. But I don't allow a SpareAir or an H-Valve when I teach SDI Solo. Yes, an independent first/second stage regulator (H and SA) is indeed a step up from no redundancy, but not a large enough step.

 

[DevonDiver]

The standard is:

Redundant gas source - pony cylinder, twin cylinders with isolation valve or sidemount configuration. Redundant gas supplies must be configured so that the diver can access it with one hand.

From my perspective, a Spare Air is NOT a pony cylinder.

The course theory is detailed on gas management. It gives clear in sorry on how to "establish the cylinder size needed for a planned dive".

It is also a skill performance standard (dive #2) to:

"While continuously swimming, simulate an out-of-air emergency and change from your primary air supply to your redundant air supply system within 30 seconds, then breath from the redundant air supply system for at least TWO minutes"

Good luck for 2 minutes at any reasonable depth on a Spare Air..

On dive #3, the performance requirement is:

"While continuously swimming, simulate an out-of-air emergency and change from your primary air supply to your redundant air supply within 30 seconds, then deploy a lift bag or DSMB and ascend to the surface, stopping at 5 metres/15 feet for a three minute safety stop".

Sadly, the manual provides no direction or standard on the minimum capacity for a redundant air source. It gives gas management info, then merely states that "As a self-reliant diver, your redundant air supply system covers you for low on, or out of gas problems".

I doubt PADI had a spare air in mind. But, with no direction on min volume, it's open to interpretation of what a 'pony cylinder' is.

Only a dick instructor would allow a Spare Air as redundancy IMHO.

 

[mmerriman]

I saw a PADI self reliant diver class going on last weekend and the student was using a Spare Air canister for the redundant air supply. I am not trying to start a spare death debate here - but is I can't find the equipment standards or the instructor manual online, but I'm wondering if that's considered "good enough" for the course.

Equipment Requirements – Student Diver
1. Standard dive equipment as outlined in the General Standards
and Procedures Guide of the PADI Instructor Manual.
2. Surface marker buoy, such as a delayed surface marker buoy
(DSMB) or lift bag with at least 30 metres/100 feet of line.
3. Redundant gas source – pony cylinder, twin cylinders with
isolation valve or sidemount configuration. Redundant gas
supply must be configured so that the diver can access it
with one hand.
4. Redundant depth gauge and bottom timer, or dive computer.
5. Redundant surface signaling devices (both visual and audible)
6. Knife/cutting tool (except where locally prohibited)
7. Slate and pencil
8. Back-up mask (recommended)

 

[redacted]

Equipment Requirements – Student Diver
1. Standard dive equipment as outlined in the General Standards
and Procedures Guide of the PADI Instructor Manual.
2. Surface marker buoy, such as a delayed surface marker buoy
(DSMB) or lift bag with at least 30 metres/100 feet of line.
3. Redundant gas source – pony cylinder, twin cylinders with
isolation valve or sidemount configuration. Redundant gas
supply must be configured so that the diver can access it
with one hand.
4. Redundant depth gauge and bottom timer, or dive computer.
5. Redundant surface signaling devices (both visual and audible)
6. Knife/cutting tool (except where locally prohibited)
7. Slate and pencil
8. Back-up mask (recommended)

What is the purpose of the slate and pencil? Writing notes to self?

 

[Wookie]

I do not accept a spare air or H/Y valve as a redundant gas supply when teaching. As a dive operator I did, as I am not in the business of approving equipment configurations.

 

[WarrenZ]

What is the purpose of the slate and pencil? Writing notes to self?

PADI requires you to make a few SAC rate swims so you need something to write/do math on.