When are we gonna learn?
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Bric Martin
Registered
If I read it right he was advanced with 14 dives, and he hired someone to guide him with a cert that requires 50 dives to guide him at Race Rocks.
My answer to the question of when will we learn is...... never. The industry is designed to make money and that happens by selling certifications, not skills. I am sure people fail their open water class, but not many.
Classes like yours Bob are the rare exception, keep teaching and forget about Bali!!!!
My answer to the question of when will we learn is...... never. The industry is designed to make money and that happens by selling certifications, not skills. I am sure people fail their open water class, but not many.
Classes like yours Bob are the rare exception, keep teaching and forget about Bali!!!!
beester
Contributor
Currently it's happening more and more that people are getting in situations which if something would happen could easily spiral out of control. Luckily not often something happens, which in itself is a bit of a problem because it enforces the believe that they are doing fine, and are safe (normalisation of deviance).
In this situation it was a very new diver (14 dives in 5 years in my eyes is really a beginner diver because most of these dives from his certification have already been long forgotten), who maybe overestimated his experience, overestimated his tools to compensate and manage issues (police officer?) or may have realised but wanted to do the dive (pinnacle dive) and relied on someone else to keep him safe (trust me dive).
People are pointing towards the diveshop, DM, his certification or the level and content of current courses. But that's not the issue I think. I see the same happening with technical divers as well, who have good skills, but find themselves also over their head in situations which can easily become unmanageable. Good tools (good divelights, good regulators, computers, scooters, rebreathers), and a rapid progression in certification (from OW to full technical cave and trimix diver in 3 years), can put you in spots where you really shouldn't already be.
Reason for this is simple... we know what we want and we want it now. We searched the internet and are visiting BC and this race rock thing sound incredible looking at the youtube clips and the pictures. I WANT THIS (to also show off on social media). Same goes for technical divers who see pinnacle divers do pinnacle dives and WANT THE SAME... and NOW. Pushed on by social media and the fact that we want to show off. Not realising the effort and steady improvement and baby steps needed to get there.
I myself wonder about this as well... Am I falling in the same trap. I'm getting to a point where I'm doing big dives (for me)... is being 2 km in a cave a good place to be in with 130 cave dives? Is doing a 30' bottom time 90m dive a good thing to do with 120 trimix dives? I'm not sure... been diving since 1990 but only tech diving since 2010. but I see other technical divers doing the same with much less... Anyhow this is going far off topic.
In any case I do think that there needs to be some space in diving courses to communicate the above and make aspiring divers aware and give them tools to self evaluate their experience vs the dive they want to make. This and personal responsibility will hopefully reduce incidents and accidents in the safe sport that diving already is.
In this situation it was a very new diver (14 dives in 5 years in my eyes is really a beginner diver because most of these dives from his certification have already been long forgotten), who maybe overestimated his experience, overestimated his tools to compensate and manage issues (police officer?) or may have realised but wanted to do the dive (pinnacle dive) and relied on someone else to keep him safe (trust me dive).
People are pointing towards the diveshop, DM, his certification or the level and content of current courses. But that's not the issue I think. I see the same happening with technical divers as well, who have good skills, but find themselves also over their head in situations which can easily become unmanageable. Good tools (good divelights, good regulators, computers, scooters, rebreathers), and a rapid progression in certification (from OW to full technical cave and trimix diver in 3 years), can put you in spots where you really shouldn't already be.
Reason for this is simple... we know what we want and we want it now. We searched the internet and are visiting BC and this race rock thing sound incredible looking at the youtube clips and the pictures. I WANT THIS (to also show off on social media). Same goes for technical divers who see pinnacle divers do pinnacle dives and WANT THE SAME... and NOW. Pushed on by social media and the fact that we want to show off. Not realising the effort and steady improvement and baby steps needed to get there.
I myself wonder about this as well... Am I falling in the same trap. I'm getting to a point where I'm doing big dives (for me)... is being 2 km in a cave a good place to be in with 130 cave dives? Is doing a 30' bottom time 90m dive a good thing to do with 120 trimix dives? I'm not sure... been diving since 1990 but only tech diving since 2010. but I see other technical divers doing the same with much less... Anyhow this is going far off topic.
In any case I do think that there needs to be some space in diving courses to communicate the above and make aspiring divers aware and give them tools to self evaluate their experience vs the dive they want to make. This and personal responsibility will hopefully reduce incidents and accidents in the safe sport that diving already is.
Dan
Contributor
Still unclear about how he died & the DM survived with buddy breathing situation. They got to be in an arm length from each other. The DM could get him untangle from the kelp. Is there a more elaborate accident report / AI discussion about this accident than that of newspaper article?
That is not correct. Advanced diver was not around 50 years ago, the choice was diver or instructor for classes. In the 70's Advanced diver was generally a much more in depth course with regards experience and academics. PADI changed the AOW to the current format in the 80's , other agencies followed the PADI format in the 90's. When I took my advanced diver class in the early 90's it was 8 dives, 40 hours academics.
KevinNM
Contributor
sunshower
Contributor
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I've thought about it a little more and have a hard time blaming the shop. They are after all in the dive business. A certified diver signs up to go diving; he has the appropriate credentials but maybe lacks some experience; but he does the right thing and hires a DM to be his buddy. Unless the dive is really really difficult, why wouldn't a shop take this person out? I have no clue about Race Rocks, maybe it is that tough that the shop should've known better, but absent that, it seems like they acted reasonably.
I'm really more confused by what happened when things went bad. Seems like worst case you cut some kelp and share air to the surface. But obviously that didn't happen; maybe the diver panicked and acted irrationally; who knows...sucks for him and the DM.
I'm really more confused by what happened when things went bad. Seems like worst case you cut some kelp and share air to the surface. But obviously that didn't happen; maybe the diver panicked and acted irrationally; who knows...sucks for him and the DM.
OP
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You can't make money off of dead people.
And I retired from teaching scuba classes at the end of 2015, although I am still mentoring new divers and giving free seminars and workshops ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Dan
Contributor
Scratched off Race Rocks from my Bucket list.
OP
- Messages
- 93,280
- Reaction score
- 91,303
- Location
- On the Fun Side of Trump's Wall
- # of dives
- 2500 - 4999
I wouldn't go that far, it's a spectacular dive site. But like most of our best sites up here you have to pay attention to tidal exchanges and the ensuing current they produce, and plan your dives accordingly. There are many bucket list dives that are only diveable at certain times. One of the skills we teach locally that isn't part of any agency curriculum is how to use tide and current charts when planning your dives, so as to avoid putting yourself into unacceptably risky situations. But properly planned, these sites aren't particularly risky ... you just have to know when to go and when to decide that today's not that day.
I always used to tell my students that one of the most important things they can learn about scuba diving is when to say "not today" ... and around here it's not an uncommon call to have to make.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
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