1000 vs 1800 lumen video light

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@ronscuba if you read what I wrote, I wouldn't care if it claimed 15k and only got 12k, literally wouldn't care at all as long as it was constant.
What is false advertising is saying you get that much light for that amount of time, because you don't, and it doesn't come close. Light and Motion, UWLD, Light Monkey, etc all give lumen output claims, and burn time claims. The difference is, they are all giving you a quoted light output and actually maintain that nominal light output for the full duration.
That BB 15k, averages 10k lumen for an hour, but starts at 12 and ends at 8. UWLD makes a 10k lumen, that is actually 10k lumen *nominal, may be 9500 out the front, but close enough*, but it will not vary at all until it dies.
Now, the UWLD is 2x as expensive, so that may be a sacrifice you are willing to make if you aren't doing professional videography, but it's still a factor. The 15k is a less bad example from big blue, but you are still only getting 60% of the light you thought you paid for.

We Test Lights | TL4000P Test and Review
If you say this one isn't false advertising, I would recommend you look it up in the dictionary. Claimed 4000 lumens for 120 minutes. Actual high was 3300, and after 40 minutes was 1200. You bought what you thought was a 4k lumen light, and now you are getting 30% of the light that you thought you paid for.
 
I am not going to debate you on the dictionary definition of false advertising. How much it bothers the consumer and/or how much it affects buying decisions is different for each of us. I don't think of it as getting 66% of the light I paid for. For me, I focus more on real world results and costs.

What do you call a light that starts at 12k then gradually drops to 8k over 60 minutes ? Maybe 10k because it is the average ? One could then compare it to other 10k lights factoring price, feelings on advertising, etc.. My advertised 7500 lumen light is really a 5000 lumen light ? OK, let's accept that. It was still much less expensive than other 5000 lumen lights when I bought it.

You are providing good info tbone. Information that will help people in their buying decisions. People can agree on the info, but that does not have to mean it leads to the same buying decision.
 
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@ronscuba the problem is if a website like wetestlights didn't exist, we wouldn't have any way to gain that information because the manufacturer is intentionally misleading the customer and that just rubs me all sorts of the wrong way.
 
I hear you. Yeah, that testing website is a very good thing for us consumers. Guess I don't get upset as much as you on advertising claims.

I think of it as I paid xxx $ for a light. Am I happy with the light for the xxx $ money I paid ?

Not sure if the finished light manufacturer is intentionally misleading people or if they just used the LED element manufacturers specs.
 
That testing site is interesting and informative, thanks for that.
Pretty much all their testing is for mainstream lights, which is understandable. It would be interesting to see some of the 'cheap Chinese' lights that have gotten broad acceptance in this community as actually functional and reliable.
 
I hear you. Yeah, that testing website is a very good thing for us consumers. Guess I don't get upset as much as you on advertising claims.

I think of it as I paid xxx $ for a light. Am I happy with the light for the xxx $ money I paid ?

Not sure if the finished light manufacturer is intentionally misleading people or if they just used the LED element manufacturers specs.

on the misleading thing, I don't care about their actual output lumens as long as they are within about 20% of claimed because there are losses associated with the lens that are difficult to account for. I.e. with UWLD I'm sure the LD35 will not put out 3500 lumen in front of the glass. If you talk to Bobby, I'm sure he'd tell you the same. It will have less of a loss than others due to custom optics, but there is still loss. Industry standard has manufacturers quoting behind the lens except for Light and Motion and others.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that if I paid $400 for a TL4000P and then saw that WeTestLights analysis I would be calling the manufacturer demanding a refund on that light because it doesn't even come close to doing what they say it does though. Claiming 4000 and only putting out 1200 is not even remotely close. Their big a$$ lights may be less bad, but if I paid for any of the 6 that had been tested by We Test Lights, I would be shouting for a refund as soon as I saw those results. DGX at least comes out and flat out says that our lights are optimized for burn time, not brightness, and will dim over time. Fine, they make that claim, so I expect it. Big Blue makes no such claims which implies that you get the full output for the full duration, and on that front, they are batting 0.000
 
Fair enough tbone. You have a lot of passion when it comes to dive gear.

Who knows what Big Blue would do in that case. Fight you, refund you, replace it ? Looks like the TL4000P was a 2015 light and is discontinued. They seem to upgrade their lights annually.

I am happy with my Big Blue VL7500P light. It has performed very well for me in real world use. WeTestLights has not done an analysis on it. If they did and their tests showed a gradual drop off to 5000 lumens over an hour, it would not change my satisfaction. When I was doing comparisons before buying, the pricing was inline with Light and Motion 3000 lumen light.

Maybe there is a direct correlation to output and burn times to Big Blue lower pricing. Maybe Light and Motion pricing is higher because they have to cover the costs of WeTestLights. Who really knows ?

For me, a light is a tool to assist me in making better UW videos. For the $ I paid, my Big Blue VL7500P performs well in that use.
 
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Nowhere in SCUBA advertising do you get more misleading, misunderstood, exaggerated and downright wrong information than in the realm of underwater lighting. There are only a few national standards on measuring light output and almost no one uses them or even bothers testing the light output of their finished product at all. For starters it is impossible to represent the output of a light source in a single number. Even the commonly quoted lumen output is a poor representation of total light output.

The first thing to understand is that all light sources, depending on the technology they use, have variations in output across the visible spectrum of wavelengths referred to as their spectral power distribution. Some light sources have an even, continuous output across all wavelengths. Others have spikes and troughs at different frequencies. This popular mechanics article hase a decent explanation of PSD curves:
PM's Ultimate Light Bulb Test
The Color Temperature is a way is stating the average output across the entire visible spectrum and relates the measured output from a given source to that of an ideal black box radiator. A black box radiator is any object really that will give of energy in the form of light as you heat it. The hotter the object the whiter the light. Sunlight for example corresponds to a color temperature of 5600 degrees Kelvin. Again, it is an average number so it doesn't really tell the whole story. For incandescent lights, which are close to theoretical black box radiators, it is very representative. For some of the other technologies which are not as uniform it is not as good of an indicator. Color Rendering Index or CRI is a value which attempts to quantify how far a real world light source deviates from a theoretical ideal one. A CRI of 100 is perfect and uniform, lower values are worse meaning there are some wavelengths that are not as uniformly represented (but doesn't identify which ones). Why does any of this matter? Well photographers and videographers who are trying to accurately capture the color of objects have to illuminate them with a light source that carries the light spectrum they are trying to capture. If my light source performs poorly at the blue end of the spectrum, blues are going to be underrepresented in the final image.

The next thing to consider is light output commonly measured or quoted in lumens. This is the most frequently discussed value and also the most misrepresented. Although lumens is supposed to be a measurement of the total output in all directions what is frequently quoted is a peak output which can be very misleading. Few light sources in practical application emit light in all directions. Usually real world dive lights are designed to concentrate light in a single direction. That pattern is typically described by a beam angle but even within that beam either due to limitations of reflector design and manufacture or by intentional design the light output over that beam will vary. Some beams have a "hot" center beam and less intense periphery before dropping off to nothing. Others will provide even illumination across the entire pattern.

For a discussion on measuring the total lumen output and beam angle see these Light and Motion articles:
Understanding UW Light Specs & Testing / Light and Motion - Light & Motion
Setting a High Standard: LEDs and Color Rendering / Light and Motion - Light & Motion

Without an understanding of the pattern, a comparison of ones manufacturers lumen output to another's is essentially meaningless. Are they quoting a beam peak or a true average? Sometimes you might see both numbers. In some instances the comparison itself might be meaningless. A cave diver might prefer a beam that has a high center beam output for signaling his buddies but the same light would make a poor choice for videography.

The last thing to understand is burn time. In the days of "dumb" lights the output of the light would drop off as the battery was depleted and the voltage dropped. Most modern lights come with some form of electronics to regulate the flow of electrons from the battery to the light. A common method is to design the electronics to compensate for battery voltage drop and adjust for a constant light output over the discharge of the batteries. Final duration is typically determined by a cut-off circuit designed to protect the battery cells from deep discharge. What recent testing has shown is that some manufactures have cheated a bit and step down the output of the light over time to meet a longer burn time. The step-down is subtle enough that it is difficult to detect but measured output falls off considerably. This might not be important on a night dive to the diver/observer but might be a noticeable factor to someone shooting video in consistent low-light conditions like a cave.

So where does that leave the average consumer? No better off I'm afraid. It is a complicated topic that is impossible to boil down to a single number. Don't worry too much is one manufactures lumen claim is a few lumens higher or lower than the competition like the OP. Chances are they are using the same components from the same manufacturer. Do a pattern comparison against a blank wall if possible so you have some sense of how broad and uniform the bream is (or narrow and concentrated if that is what you are after). If you are shooting video try to understand those PSD curves a little. Seek out testing from a independent source if it is available.
 

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