The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
I've seen folds get condemned as cracks before. I trust the science of the hydro more than I trust anything else.
Charging extra for VIP??
- Thread starter scuberd
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Rred
Contributor
So Chris,
Did yo also ask the shop for their numbers to confirm how well the tank did or didn't pass hydro? And, knowing now that you can trust the thoroughness and competency of their work [sic] do you still use them for hydro tests? Still trust them at all? Share the experience with the shop ownership, in case there's just one problem employee?
I did not follow up on it with them, didn't even think about it honestly. It was in a bunch of ~20 tanks that were tested, so I had other things on my plate at the time.
There was certainly some issues with competency after that when a friend of mine got his O2 tanks (AL40s for deco, not medical O2) back full of aluminum dust and he found out that they had used abrasive media to tumble them "because they were really dirty". Follow up calls to the facility later didn't help things with talk of "we've tried everything to clean tanks, even just putting in a bunch of nuts and bolts". I was concerned enough that I passed on word to several of the dive shops I have relationships with (every shop in town uses them for hydros). At least one of which followed up with them as well, and never got the same story back. Maybe it was somebody talking out their butt to show off or something, and a simple mistake of putting media for a steel tank into an aluminum one. I waited for about 6 months before I took anything back to them incase it was just a new guy that needed training.
Unfortunately they are about the only game in town, so we're kind of stuck with them regardless. I can't believe there is only one place in Houston that hydros scuba tanks, but most of what I found was all oil and gas industry type inspection (I did find someone that will test your LNG tanker though).
I just got 5 tanks back from them, and so far so good. I have one left to VIP still, and have been O2 cleaning the others.
-Chris
So did I. If this is a fold it was never caught before, and it fooled two other inspectors. It's pretty obvious, I can have someone that has never seen the inside of a tank before find it if I tell them to look at the neck threads. I still have the tank, I'll have to see if I can get a picture of the crack.
But I have no issues condemning one of my own tanks. It isn't worth a couple hundred bucks to even have a doubt in my mind about them.
-Chris
Rred
Contributor
The only game in town, wow. I sure give them credit for trying everything [not] rather than, say, finding out what industry norms are.
Steel dust in an aluminum tank...that's a real "WFT?!" moment. (sigh)
I've often thought, if you dive enough to make renting uneconomical, maybe it pays to just buy tanks and sell them at 2-3 years, so they've still got hydro left on them, and you don't have to play that game, the next guy gets that pleasure. A buddy of mine keeps threatening to get his own compressor, just so he can avoid all the experts messing with his tanks.
Steel dust in an aluminum tank...that's a real "WFT?!" moment. (sigh)
I've often thought, if you dive enough to make renting uneconomical, maybe it pays to just buy tanks and sell them at 2-3 years, so they've still got hydro left on them, and you don't have to play that game, the next guy gets that pleasure. A buddy of mine keeps threatening to get his own compressor, just so he can avoid all the experts messing with his tanks.
IslandDiversHI
Contributor
This is quite the discussion.
I will add this. I know of 5 places in Honolulu that do hydros:
Oahu Fire Protection, Fire Safety Systems, Island Hydrostatics, Hawaiian Diving Adventures, and I believe Dive Oahu at least at one point had a hydro static testing station. If price is the major consideration, the first three are cheapest. I hope the community finds this information useful.
Our shops charge $55 for a hydro, VIP, and fill (it is a package, we don't split it up). We use a third party provider for the hydrostatic testing. Our service involves you dropping off the tanks at one of the dive shops, we take it to third party, go back and get it when finished, perform our own VIP (since it is our sticker we may or may not be repeating work here, doesn't matter to us, our name goes on sticker, we do the work), then we fill the tank and call the customer to pick it up. We get this done in a week as we do multiple "tank runs" a week (but we promise 2 weeks). We are not the cheapest for this service, but we will handle it for you as a service that we charge the above rate for. At this time we have a full time service manager, Matthew Kuderik, and an equipment tech with 12 years experience on Oahu, Mark Savel. They have part time assistants that we trained through the Hawaii Scuba University Scuba Repair Technician program. Not only do we do the VIPs, we run people through a 2 day class, $250 to teach people to do their own, enrollment is open to anyone that is 18 years of age. Certification is from Visual Training Services, Mark and Matt both instructors. This crew has it together. The service department specializes in quick turn around regulator, BCD, Full face mask and rebreather service. They will even do your equipment same day if you make an appointment.
There, I hijacked the thread back to VIP and Hydro Services on Oahu, with a plug for our repair and service department.
I will add this. I know of 5 places in Honolulu that do hydros:
Oahu Fire Protection, Fire Safety Systems, Island Hydrostatics, Hawaiian Diving Adventures, and I believe Dive Oahu at least at one point had a hydro static testing station. If price is the major consideration, the first three are cheapest. I hope the community finds this information useful.
Our shops charge $55 for a hydro, VIP, and fill (it is a package, we don't split it up). We use a third party provider for the hydrostatic testing. Our service involves you dropping off the tanks at one of the dive shops, we take it to third party, go back and get it when finished, perform our own VIP (since it is our sticker we may or may not be repeating work here, doesn't matter to us, our name goes on sticker, we do the work), then we fill the tank and call the customer to pick it up. We get this done in a week as we do multiple "tank runs" a week (but we promise 2 weeks). We are not the cheapest for this service, but we will handle it for you as a service that we charge the above rate for. At this time we have a full time service manager, Matthew Kuderik, and an equipment tech with 12 years experience on Oahu, Mark Savel. They have part time assistants that we trained through the Hawaii Scuba University Scuba Repair Technician program. Not only do we do the VIPs, we run people through a 2 day class, $250 to teach people to do their own, enrollment is open to anyone that is 18 years of age. Certification is from Visual Training Services, Mark and Matt both instructors. This crew has it together. The service department specializes in quick turn around regulator, BCD, Full face mask and rebreather service. They will even do your equipment same day if you make an appointment.
There, I hijacked the thread back to VIP and Hydro Services on Oahu, with a plug for our repair and service department.
Rred
Contributor
Matthew-
The total for the package is not out of line, but I have to ask. Since you send the tanks out for a hydro, and you know, or SHOULD KNOW, that hydro begins with a DOT approved technician performing a DOT-compliant VIP before anything else can be done, why does your shop perform another VIP?
Don't you trust the hydro shop? Or is there some mysterious requirement that doesn't allow you to accept a VIP performed by a DOT-compliant technician?
I'm real curious to hear the reason directly from a shop.
The total for the package is not out of line, but I have to ask. Since you send the tanks out for a hydro, and you know, or SHOULD KNOW, that hydro begins with a DOT approved technician performing a DOT-compliant VIP before anything else can be done, why does your shop perform another VIP?
Don't you trust the hydro shop? Or is there some mysterious requirement that doesn't allow you to accept a VIP performed by a DOT-compliant technician?
I'm real curious to hear the reason directly from a shop.
IslandDiversHI
Contributor
Full disclosure here, I didn't do the training for VIPs, our service department does that. In Hawaii I'm mostly riding the desk these days, making posts on scubaboard and such. We teach the Visual Inspector course through Cylinder Training Services as part of the five week Scuba Repair Technician at Hawaii Scuba University. We do the VIP since we put our sticker on the completed tank. Our name, our number, our stamp of approval. You see what I did there?
So, the answer is: no mysterious requirement, just doing the work since we are using our name.
Rred
Contributor
" We do the VIP since we put our sticker on the completed tank."
That's very nice, but it doesn't really answer the question of why you would do a VIP, or slap on a sticker, when the tank has just received both. It has received the VIP and it has been embossed with the "sticker" of the hydro shop, i.e. their stamp is now in the metal of the tank.
If shops don't understand why that hydro stamp IS a VIP "sticker"...that shouldn't be the customer's problem. The shops are still preforming an unnecessary and redundant service.
That's very nice, but it doesn't really answer the question of why you would do a VIP, or slap on a sticker, when the tank has just received both. It has received the VIP and it has been embossed with the "sticker" of the hydro shop, i.e. their stamp is now in the metal of the tank.
If shops don't understand why that hydro stamp IS a VIP "sticker"...that shouldn't be the customer's problem. The shops are still preforming an unnecessary and redundant service.
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