Computers for beginners

[dmaziuk]

Hi Dmaziuk,
You are correct that freshwater has a density of 1000 kg/m^3 at 4°C. However, this is the peak density of freshwater. At higher or lower temperatures the density is less. For example, at 20°C the density is about 998 kg/m^3.

Yes, but that is density/temperature. I was referring to salinity, as in: the bodies of water many/most of us dive into would usually have more dissolved stuff than the well-calibrated reference fresh water.

I am not aware if all other manufacturers use pressure directly in the decompression calculations, or if some use the converted depth.

That would be a silly thing to do, programming-wise, but I've seen enough requirements specifications that it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[stuartv]

...no other manufacturer could provide our Defenders with a dive computer that implemented their algorithms...

This makes it sound like the only reason the various military groups that use Cochran are doing so is because you're the only ones that have chosen to implement the algorithm they want. In other words, you have the contracts because you have no competition. It sure does leave me wondering what the U.S. Navy would choose if Shearwater implemented VVAL-18 as an option in the Petrel 2.

 

[Jeff Loudan]

This makes it sound like the only reason the various military groups that use Cochran are doing so is because you're the only ones that have chosen to implement the algorithm they want. In other words, you have the contracts because you have no competition. It sure does leave me wondering what the U.S. Navy would choose if Shearwater implemented VVAL-18 as an option in the Petrel 2.

There was an open competition for designing the first Navy Dive Computer. Cochran was one of the very few manufacturers that even responded, and was the only company to successfully implement the VVAL-18 algorithm. Since then, we have implemented several other Navy specified algorithms and these units are deployed throughout the fleet. Why no other manufacturer has implemented the VVAL-18 algorithm is open for speculation, which I find a waste of time. As for "what the U.S. Navy would choose if Shearwater implemented VVAL-18", I'm fairly certain it would not be any of the current models being manufactured by Shearwater. Think about it, if you were on a covert mission, would you want a bright light emanating from your equipment ??

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Cochran Undersea Technology & Cochran Military designs, manufactures, and markets state-of-the-art diving computers for recreational, technical, CCR and commercial divers from our facility located in Richardson, Texas. Cochran has been designing dive computers for itself and others for over twenty five years. Cochran is the exclusive provider to the U.S. Navy and its dive computers are compliant with the "Authorization for Navy Use (ANU) Program" . Its dive computers are also being used by other international Navies and have NATO part numbers.


Come visit Cochran Undersea Technology & Cochran Military at Booth 2363 at the DEMA SHOW, Orange County Convention Center
Orlando, Florida Nov 1-4, 2017.

 

[stuartv]

There was an open competition for designing the first Navy Dive Computer. Cochran was one of the very few manufacturers that even responded, and was the only company to successfully implement the VVAL-18 algorithm. Since then, we have implemented several other Navy specified algorithms and these units are deployed throughout the fleet. Why no other manufacturer has implemented the VVAL-18 algorithm is open for speculation, which I find a waste of time. As for "what the U.S. Navy would choose if Shearwater implemented VVAL-18", I'm fairly certain it would not be any of the current models being manufactured by Shearwater. Think about it, if you were on a covert mission, would you want a bright light emanating from your equipment ??

If I were on a covert mission and the Petrel screen set on the lowest Brightness was still too bright, I might want the dive computer equivalent of one of these:

Raine Military Covered Watchband Black Wristwatch Protection Cover US Army | eBay

I mean, I have to use my other hand to do something to let me see/read the screen either way, right? Why make it complicated?

Anyway, it was just idle pondering. You said Cochran were the only ones with the algorithm the Navy wanted, so I guess they had to pick your computers. And the rest is history.

 

[Jeff Loudan]

If I were on a covert mission and the Petrel screen set on the lowest Brightness was still too bright, I might want the dive computer equivalent of one of these:

Raine Military Covered Watchband Black Wristwatch Protection Cover US Army | eBay

I mean, I have to use my other hand to do something to let me see/read the screen either way, right? Why make it complicated?

Anyway, it was just idle pondering. You said Cochran were the only ones with the algorithm the Navy wanted, so I guess they had to pick your computers. And the rest is history.

What you dive is your preference...what the Defenders of this country dive is a decision made by people who are familiar not only with the equipment, but it's application to the mission at hand. Part of the training for divers using our computers is how to activate the backlight in a hands-free mode. You make it sound as if Cochran forced the US Navy to buy our computers - I assure you that nothing is farther from the truth. Cochran worked extensively with the Navy (through NEDU) to implement the VVAL-18, and then again to complete the certification process for inclusion on the ANU list. Every other dive computer manufacturer had the same opportunity, but chose not to. So it was only logical that when the Navy wanted to implement newer algorithms, they asked Cochran to make the necessary modifications and produce the new dive computers. The Navy doesn't buy our computers because the 'have to'; they buy our computers because we are the only company that offers them the options they require.

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Cochran Undersea Technology & Cochran Military designs, manufactures, and markets state-of-the-art diving computers for recreational, technical, CCR and commercial divers from our facility located in Richardson, Texas. Cochran has been designing dive computers for itself and others for over twenty five years. Cochran is the exclusive provider to the U.S. Navy and its dive computers are compliant with the "Authorization for Navy Use (ANU) Program" . Its dive computers are also being used by other international Navies and have NATO part numbers.


Come visit Cochran Undersea Technology & Cochran Military at Booth 2363 at the DEMA SHOW, Orange County Convention Center
Orlando, Florida Nov 1-4, 2017.

 

[runsongas]

Thank you for your consideration of Cochran computers. Our dive computers have always employed automatic gas switching (in fact, we may have been the first). As for the OLED screen and configurable display, I have no response other than to say that several years ago Cochran Undersea Technology chose to focus all of their engineering and manufacturing skills on our military dive computers.

This is kind of the issue though. the civilian market is basically an afterthought, and the cochran isn't a very good fit when the needs of a recreational diver are so different. I don't see a compelling reason to buy a cochran for a recreational diver compared to shearwater other than the black and white screen giving longer battery life.

If cochran came out with a computer that had at least a monochrome oled like the liquivision x1, got rid of the automatic gas switching, and added physical buttons, it would be more attractive to a recreational diver.

 

[Jeff Loudan]

This is kind of the issue though. the civilian market is basically an afterthought, and the cochran isn't a very good fit when the needs of a recreational diver are so different. I don't see a compelling reason to buy a cochran for a recreational diver compared to shearwater other than the black and white screen giving longer battery life.

I assure you that the recreational dive market is not an 'afterthought' to Cochran. In fact, we were designing and building recreational computers before our affiliation with the U.S. Navy began. As for not being a 'very good fit' with recreational diving, that is also not true. Our EMC-16 and EMC-20H computers are used by quite a few divers, although primarily by technical divers. I also believe our algorithm is the most accurate when it comes to tri-mix and heliox calculations.

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Cochran Undersea Technology & Cochran Military designs, manufactures, and markets state-of-the-art diving computers for recreational, technical, CCR and commercial divers from our facility located in Richardson, Texas. Cochran has been designing dive computers for itself and others for over twenty five years. Cochran is the exclusive provider to the U.S. Navy and its dive computers are compliant with the "Authorization for Navy Use (ANU) Program" . Its dive computers are also being used by other international Navies and have NATO part numbers.


Come visit Cochran Undersea Technology & Cochran Military at Booth 2363 at the DEMA SHOW, Orange County Convention Center

Orlando, Florida Nov 1-4, 2017.

 

[tridacna]

Jeff,

When I wear my Cochran, other divers stare at it like it's an antique. (Because it is). You need to design one for the rec market if you want to sell to the rec market. The design smacks of all function and no form. This is a fact. Change the screen and use user friendly buttons and you guys would rock.

Navy Seals wear whatever they're given. Very few divers would willingly choose to wear something that resembles a Bendomatic.

 

[Jeff Loudan]

Jeff,

When I wear my Cochran, other divers stare at it like it's an antique. (Because it is). You need to design one for the rec market if you want to sell to the rec market. The design smacks of all function and no form. This is a fact. Change the screen and use user friendly buttons and you guys would rock.

Navy Seals wear whatever they're given. Very few divers would willingly choose to wear something that resembles a Bendomatic.

Just because the appearance of the dive computer hasn't changed doesn't mean that the function is also the same. It seems to me, given the nature of the sport in which the equipment is being used, that function should take priority over form. And there are divers that already use our computers for recreational diving (albeit primarily technical), without the requirement of satisfying the 'underwater fashion police'. Every diver has their own particular likes and dislikes. Just because they don't parallel yours is no reason to be derogatory of their choices.

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Cochran Undersea Technology & Cochran Military designs, manufactures, and markets state-of-the-art diving computers for recreational, technical, CCR and commercial divers from our facility located in Richardson, Texas. Cochran has been designing dive computers for itself and others for over twenty five years. Cochran is the exclusive provider to the U.S. Navy and its dive computers are compliant with the "Authorization for Navy Use (ANU) Program" . Its dive computers are also being used by other international Navies and have NATO part numbers.


Come visit Cochran Undersea Technology & Cochran Military at Booth 2363 at the DEMA SHOW, Orange County Convention Center
Orlando, Florida Nov 1-4, 2017.

 

[Joneill]

Just because the appearance of the dive computer hasn't changed doesn't mean that the function is also the same. It seems to me, given the nature of the sport in which the equipment is being used, that function should take priority over form. And there are divers that already use our computers for recreational diving (albeit primarily technical), without the requirement of satisfying the 'underwater fashion police'. Every diver has their own particular likes and dislikes. Just because they don't parallel yours is no reason to be derogatory of their choices.

-------------------------------------


Cochran Undersea Technology & Cochran Military designs, manufactures, and markets state-of-the-art diving computers for recreational, technical, CCR and commercial divers from our facility located in Richardson, Texas. Cochran has been designing dive computers for itself and others for over twenty five years. Cochran is the exclusive provider to the U.S. Navy and its dive computers are compliant with the "Authorization for Navy Use (ANU) Program" . Its dive computers are also being used by other international Navies and have NATO part numbers.


Come visit Cochran Undersea Technology & Cochran Military at Booth 2363 at the DEMA SHOW, Orange County Convention Center
Orlando, Florida Nov 1-4, 2017.

It's not about fashion - it's about a modern form factor, info presentation/screen, configurability, feature set, user interface., etc..

Your computers may be awesome, but I suspect most recreational divers would not even give them a second look as they seem "antiquated" in those areas versus other choices. That is the reality of the recreational market - and likey even true for many tech buyers.

Also, most consumers don't associate "used by the military" as having any real weight or adding any credibility. In fact, it could be viewed as a negative given the stories of $1,000 screwdrivers and $20,000 toilets procured by the military that surface every now and then. Again, not dissing your computers but, at least to me, they don't feel modern and your marketing messaging is lacking...