Oceanwater pool?

[uncfnp]

One of my brothers lives on a hill top in Montana. He has had a small outdoor fish pond (like large bath tube size) that he has kept the same 12 goldfish in for 10 years. During the winter he just drops in a stock tank heater which keeps it from freezing solid. Once a year he drains the pond with a shop vac scooping up the gold fish as they appear in the several inches of mud on the bottom. Tosses them in a bucket of clean well water. One the pond is cleaned out he fills with fresh water from his cistern. Tosses fish back in. Forget things like temperature changes, ph changes, etc. He has lost only 2 fish in 10 years. Maybe a stock heater is a simpler solution. Used out west to keep stock tanks from freezing so cattle can drink during the winter.

https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Sto...=1508161627&sr=8-1&keywords=stock+tank+heater

Hi Steve. My mom has an even smaller goldfish pond, 3 fish. We have been looking for something like this. Is this the one your brother actually uses or did you just link a sample product?

 

[Steve_C]

Hi Steve. My mom has an even smaller goldfish pond, 3 fish. We have been looking for something like this. Is this the one your brother actually uses or did you just link a sample product?

I linked a sample product. He has had horses off and on and has a number of rancher buddies so he just found one somewhere and used it. With goldfish you just want to keep it from freezing solid and let air get in. The one he used clearly had been around for a while. But they are rated for outdoor use in wet environments and stock tanks vary a lot in size and it can get very cold in Montana, especially up the river valleys. May want to estimate your tank volume and check out the specs. Does the ground freeze solid where your mom lives?

 

[uncfnp]

No. She lives here in NC but two winters ago she lost her fish to a particularlly bad winter. It will probably never happen again but when I saw your post I thought I would ask.

 

[2airishuman]

I used to have a herd of cows. Watering cows in Minnesota winters does pose some problems with freezing. There are various solutions.

In this climate, whatever you do, you have to insulate the sides of the tank, and you have to cover and insulate as much of the top of the tank as you can. With cows this is a constant struggle because they are remarkably strong and will destroy the cover if it is in their way or they are bored.

There are three ways to heat a stock tank. There are some designs that use a 10' deep pit below a small circular tank that has like 8" of insulation around it, that are supposed to keep it from freezing using the heat of the ground. I am skeptical and have never seen one work in this climate.

Then there are propane heaters, which tend to blow out, but some people use them in remote locations anyway because it's so expensive to bring electricity in. Typically they go underneath the tank and use a small burner that runs all the time to heat the water a little. You have to put the propane tank someplace where the cows can't get to it, which is problematic.

The third way is with an electric heater. And those come in 4 kinds for livestock use. There are some that are built into the bottom of the tank, usually on "fountains" which have the insulation and the valve and the heater all built into a convenient $300 package that you just bolt down to a concrete slab. There are some that replace the drain plug in the stock tank. These have the advantage of more reliably staying in one spot and having the best options for keeping the cord away from the cows. Then there are submersible ones, which sometimes clamp to the side, and there are floating ones. With the floating ones you can get away with a little less wattage and they'll keep a hole in the ice rather than heating the whole tank up to 40 degrees or whatever.

All this stuff works to some degree but the thing is that with any of it you have to monitor it since ice, rain, cold, electricity, and (if applicable) cows do not play well together.

Was also involved in the operation of a mermaid attraction once where they used 3 or 4 heaters, 1500w each, for a few hours in the morning to take the chill off the water, then shut them off and removed them. Acrylic tank about 2000 gallons.

 

[lowviz]

@2airishuman , If nothing else, this thread has generated some interesting and useful stories.

Thinking this through, I need to backflush my sand filter regularly. That operation dumps seawater onto the backyard. As much as I want to go this way, backflushing could be the deal breaker for oceanwater...

 

[RyanT]

In the aquarium and brewing world we use $20 refractometers. Look up some videos. It's as simple as putting a drop of liquid on the device and looking through the lens... no stove needed.

The refractometers work well. You can also buy a cheap plastic specific gravity meter from an aquarium store. They make floaty glass ones, but the plastic one is easier to just scoop out the water and no glass to break.

As for the backflush, you could also built a small dry well to take the effluent and percolate it into the ground rather than dumping it on the lawn. That's what I did for my water softener.

 

[lowviz]

Not a bad idea at all as to the dry well! I was thinking about a diverter switch and a small tank so I could backflush with plain water.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

I've just read most of the thread. Interesting idea. I have a 13,xxx above ground pool, live in northern Maryland (~10 miles from PA line) and my pool never truly freezes (at least not to where I could walk on it, unless it's a really bad winter). I converted to a saltwater pool for convenience (2800-3200ppm). I don't leave my pump running, but because it's a variable speed pump, I could for little money all year long, but instead take the pump inside. At its lowest setting it moves water and uses 70-80 watts. Pentair makes an economical VS pump for $650, but with any VS pump in Maryland there's a $400 rebate from the electric company, so $250 total (+taxes).

The salt I get is from Home Depot @ $4.99 / bag. Sometimes I can find it cheaper, but because salt doesn't evaporate, it's not a big deal. I usually have to add a bag after the winter season, although this last year I didn't and everything was fine. This is with multiple kids splashing like it's their job.

I picked up a cartridge filter on CL for free and the cartridges were still good. This prevents un-needed backflow. Coming from a sand filter, I feel it does a better job (it's way over-sized for my pool, made for a commercial sized swimming pool). So far, I clean the filter once a year. It is more of a pain to clean the cartridge than sand, but that's far outweighed by only needing done once / year. Pool water stays crystal clear, needs vacuuming every so often.

Just my experience, not sure if that helps, but for what your doing I don't think it needs to be to extravagant.

 

[lowviz]

...//...
I picked up a cartridge filter on CL for free and the cartridges were still good. This prevents un-needed backflow. Coming from a sand filter, I feel it does a better job (it's way over-sized for my pool, made for a commercial sized swimming pool).

I've been waffling on this. It could turn into a nightmare if poorly done.

But you might have tipped the balance! I secretly want to go full Monty and turn it into seawater but the need for frequent backwashing is the killer.

I LOVE the idea of an oversized cartridge filter running in front of my sand filter! I have an oversized pump that can handle the added load. Your cartridge filter would make the sand filter totally unnecessary, but I'm now considering a "nuts and bolts" cartridge filter that can be switched out and cleaned often and easily. Looking into industrial filters now. Backwash the sand filter once a year. Very interesting!!

Pool is under trees so it gets a lot of debris. I remove most of that with a net.

...//... I don't think it needs to be extravagant. ...

Agree!