Phosphoric acid w/ Blue Gold for reg cleaning

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cbrich

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Has anyone tried using Phosphoric acid and Blue Gold cleaner for cleaning regs?
 
I would be leery of using any acid stronger than vinegar (acetic acid). I'm sure you'll be diluting it but I guess my question is why do you feel the need? If you do go that route, let us know how it compares to the standard vinegar mix in the ultrasonic cleaner.
 
Acidic cleaners are used to remove corrosion and mineral deposits.

Basic cleaners like Blue Gold and Simple Green are used to remove old lubricants and dirt attached to them, and generally degrease parts.

Mixing them together is a non starter as mixing an acid and a base can get interesting. At best you partially neutralize both the acid and the base and a get a solution closer to a neutral ph - and that defeats the purpose of each cleaner. At worse, with strong acids and bases you also produce either gases or salts. The gas producing reactions can be violent, whole not many people advocate cleaning in salt water.

In terms of the specific acid used, I don't see any advantage to a 50/50 solution of water and white vinegar to produce a suitably dilute acetic acid solution. It's reasonably safe for chrome plating and it's available cheap in your local grocery store.

A very dilute solution of Muractic acid was used for years, but it can and will attack chrome so it has to be diluted sufficiently, exposure times have to be limited, and it has to be neutralized in a soda bath. It requires some basic math skills to figure out how much water is needed for proper dilution and that's probably it's biggest drawback. The 50/50 mix of water with white vinegar is idiot proof.

Phosphoric acid is useful in rust removal for badly neglected tanks, and a wash with a very dilute phosphoric acid solution adds a level of rust protection to a tank - somewhat like Parkerizing the surface, but that practice has fallen out of use.

Blue Gold Cleaner is a great cleaning and degreasing agent for both tanks and regulators, and it works great in an ultrasound machine. It's also used for cleaning components in jet turbine engines - and this is important as if you order Blue Gold through an aviation supply house you'll be able to get a 5 gallon bucket of it for around $150 shipped, compared to $40 for a single quart at a dive shop - about 3 times higher than it should be, even in the smaller bottle.

Blue Gold is one of the most outrageously over priced items on-line or brick and mortar dive ships sell. One item that exceeds it in price gouging is replacement batteries for analyzers. For example, Dive Gear Express sells a replacement battery for the TruMix 4001 trimix analyzer for $150. It's the same battery used in most exit signs, and you can find them for $10 anywhere. If you shop around you can find them for about $3.50 each. The DGX battery does include a new wiring harness with the molex connector, but you can re-use the one on your old battery, if you have even rudimentary soldering skills. Plus, if you install spade connectors, future battery replacement is a 2 minute job, and you can crimp on the spade connectors, which means you don't even have to know how to solder. Thus, the DGX battery for it costs about 1500% more than if you just bought the battery through normal sources.

Amazon has helped a lot with Blue Gold Cost as you can get a 5 gallon bucket of Blue Gold for around $200 shipped, or a gallon for around $50 shipped. I suspect it has cut into dive shop sales a lot. It hopefully will also eliminate the belief that Blue Gold is prohibitively expensive. It is diluted between 10-1 and 30-1 depending on the use, so a gallon goes a long way.

Simple Green is also a basic cleaner and very effective degreasing agent. And it's available pretty much everywhere by the gallon at low cost. Simple Green Crystal is preferred as it is low odor and takes less rinsing, but it costs more (about $13 per gallon rather than $8 per gallon). Like Blue Gold, the Simple Green cleaners are also diluted.
 
So what I am reading is, using GMC Ultrasonic cleaner is very bad for regulators??? The main ingredients per the MSDS is 50-70% phosphoric acid, 10-20% 2-butoxyethanol. I have used GMC ultrasonic cleaner in the past, and does a very good job, but it’s rediciously expensive. Phosphoric acid is easy to come by, and a lot cheaper.

2-butoxyethanol is a surfactant, and it is the highest concentrated ingredient in Blue Gold Cleaner. However one of the other ingredients is what gives Blue Gold it’s high pH (I did not catch this when I asked my question.) So using Blue Gold is out. I get Blue Gold for like $30 per gallon, direct from a Blue Gold. So getting Blue Gold is not a problem.

Blue Gold does not work on scale removal, mainly calcium deposits, but the GMC Ultrasonic cleaner has always done the trick of removing it.

Also diluting almost any chemical is not hard, since I do it every day. Why dilute vinegar? Store bought vinegar is 3-5% acetic acid. I have 99% acetic acid.

I currently have citric acid, hydrochloric acid, nitric acid, sulfuric acid, oxalic acid, sodium hydroxide, magnesium hydroxide, calcium hydroxide, and several others. So I might give citric acid a try since it already in liquid form, the other acids are way too strong. Citric acid solution in the ultrasonic cleaner, rinse, then in a Blue Gold solution in another ultrasonic cleaner, followed by a rinse.

I might have to get some phosphoric acid, just to give it a try.
 
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Thanks. First page -“ I use ~ 4% by volume phosphoric acid, just a teaspoon each of propylene glycol and Dawn dish detergent to a quart of water.” Not sure why propylene glycol, but dawn dish soap is a surfactant. This person appears to be on the same page as me, acid solution with a surfactant.

If GMC ultrasonic cleaner is 50-70% phosphoric acid,with a surfactant, and safe to use straight, why not other combinations. Or has anybody even tried?

The best comment “2-3 cap full of vinegar to 1 quart of water.” IMO, If you do this, you are better off using distilled water.
 
Thanks. First page -“ I use ~ 4% by volume phosphoric acid, just a teaspoon each of propylene glycol and Dawn dish detergent to a quart of water.” Not sure why propylene glycol, but dawn dish soap is a surfactant. This person appears to be on the same page as me, acid solution with a surfactant.

If GMC ultrasonic cleaner is 50-70% phosphoric acid,with a surfactant, and safe to use straight, why not other combinations. Or has anybody even tried?

The best comment “2-3 cap full of vinegar to 1 quart of water.” IMO, If you do this, you are better off using distilled water.
Did you see this post from a related link. @rsingler uses the glycol as a “penetrant.”

I can't stand the odor that Simple Green leaves on plastic parts. I've given it up for Dawn and a toothbrush.
Try switching from vinegar to warm 2% phosphoric acid. Get some liquid tile cleaner from HomeDepot or equivalent, and dilute it heavily. Check the label to confirm it only has phosphoric acid, some glycol (antifreeze) which acts as a penetrant, and add a little Dawn as a surfactant. You've just made some cheapo Lawrence Factor Wash.
The improvement over vinegar is amazing. Warm it and it's even better.
Plastic parts just need a 30-sec dip and a little rubbing on the salty areas, and then a rinse in clean water.
Metal parts can handle 3-10 min in warm solution, and then rinse.
 
Simple Green Crystal is preferred as it is low odor and takes less rinsing
I always wondered what was so special about the crystal variant which garnered it so many recommendations. Thanks!
 
I don't understand why folks don't use the manufacturers recommended products. They had a team of engineers, chemists and/or materials scientists figure out what worked best for their products. Use their recommendation. How well do you know the chemistry? Why overthink the problem? Maybe I'm missing something.

As far as substituting one acid for another, just adjusting to the same pH is not all you need to worry about. Despite what is often taught in general chemistry class, the counter ion (chloride, sulfate, phosphate, acetate, nitrate, etc.) is not necessarily an inert species or "spectator". I used to work in a lab where we used a lot of concentrated acids. Those using hydrochloric acid didn't have as many holes in their clothes as those who used nitric acid or sulfuric acid.
 
I might have to get some phosphoric acid, just to give it a try.

(I don't have any experience with Blue Gold.)

I've been using 8-10% phosphoric acid with just a little (same as above 1 teaspoon per quart) liquid soap (Dawn) for a few years now. It works just as well, if not better than 50/50 water vinegar and smells much better. I cannot say for sure, but it also seems to be less corrosive to chrome.

Here's a link to a vendor I've used:
950 ml of 85% Food Grade Phosphoric Acid | eBay

Here is a calculator as you probably won't be using it all at once.
Dilution Calculator - Molarity, Percent - PhysiologyWeb
 
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https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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