Efficiency evidence: frog vs flutter?

[northernone]

I dive a mix of kicks, mainly exhausting various muscles or giving certain joints a rest, depending on the environment and day and how my body feels. Can't say I've found my SAC changes much (any discernable amount) between dives where I exclusively flutter or frog. Pace, fitness, streamlining, trim etc is significant but I'm specifically curious for evidence regarding kick style, keeping the other factors similar.

I've seen the military fin efficiency tests where they measure the oxygen metabolism and speed/distances.

Anything been done testing for various kicks? I know whenever someone tries an unfamiliar kick their SAC is off until they relax into the new stroke cycle.

Regards,
Cameron

 

[MargaritaMike]

I've seen the military fin efficiency tests where they measure the oxygen metabolism and speed/distances.

Have you got a link to this info? I would like to read it.
Thanks - MM

 

[ronscuba]

Frog kick is efficient for energy expended per kick. Flutter kick is more efficient for distance traveled vs. time.

I don't know of any scientific studies, but look at free divers. Since they dive on 1 breath, distance traveled, time and energy expended are all combined. Their kick of choice is flutter or dolphin.

Comparing scuba SAC rates for the 2 kicks is not practical. To do a real scientific test, you would need a fixed distance and time duration. The flutter kicker would have to flutter and stop at regular intervals to keep distance traveled and time the same as the frog kicker. Then you have to factor how many flutter kicks and how long to stop.

 

[tursiops]

I've done multiple 100-ft runs with either flutter or frog, trying to be relaxed and thinking "marathon" rather than "spring." What I'm wearing is usually very similar. I've done this with several different fins. I find no major differences in times or in number of frog kicks or flutter kick-cycles, for the fins I've tried, for example Deep 6 Eddys or DR XTs. I do not know if my gas usages have been different, but I feel I am less tired after frogs than flutters, and my legs cramp less with frogs. It usually takes few less (5-10%) kicks with the XTs than with the Eddys, by the way. I air-travel with the Eddys (weight and size) but auto-travel with the XTs. Conclusions? Frog+Eddy for the easy situations, flutter+XT for the high-current situations, little difference between frog and flutter, however, and only tiny differences between Eddy and XT. YMMV.

 

[tech3324]

I've seen the military fin efficiency tests where they measure the oxygen metabolism and speed/distances.

Have you got a link to this info? I would like to read it.

Maybe this? US Navy Study Efficiency of Best Fins

 

[PatW]

The point of favoring the frog kick over the flutter kick does not have anything to do with efficiency. The frog kick tends to stir up far less silt from the bottom. Also using it, one is less likely to kick and damage the reef.

In most circumstances, divers need to swim in a slow and controlled fashion. There the frog kick is the choice.

 

[tursiops]

The point of favoring the frog kick over the flutter kick does not have anything to do with efficiency. The frog kick tends to stir up far less silt from the bottom. Also using it, one is less likely to kick and damage the reef.

In most circumstances, divers need to swim in a slow and controlled fashion. There the frog kick is the choice.

Agreed. there are excellent reasons to use a frog kick, including (you did not mention) comfort and perhaps even (you do not care) efficiency. The OP's question was about relative efficiency. It may also surprise you to learn that not all dives are close to or over silty bottoms!

 

[ronscuba]

Let's not forget fins that are good for frog kicking are stiff and fins good for long sustained flutter kicking are softer.

Running shoes vs hiking shoes. Mountain bike vs road bike. Frog kick vs flutter kick. Stiff fins vs softer fins.

 

[ReefHound]

The point of favoring the frog kick over the flutter kick does not have anything to do with efficiency. The frog kick tends to stir up far less silt from the bottom. Also using it, one is less likely to kick and damage the reef.

Frog kickers are also less likely to be darting and racing back and forth all over the reef, in my experience.

If you're froggin', you're chillin'

 

[TrimixToo]

Frog kickers are also less likely to be darting and racing back and forth all over the reef, in my experience.

If you're froggin', you're chillin'

RIBBIT.