Product Review: BARE XCS2 "Tech Dry" Drysuit

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i only ask because it is one of the main reasons i took this suit off my list of possibilities for a front entry suit. it looks like stretching to pull over the head would put a lot of strain on the zip. and i have already heard a lot of bad opinions on the plastic zips as it is. to me, the telescoping torso would be the only way to go with a front zip. but i have no experience with either as i dive a bare nex gen pro (rear zip) and no one around here has a front zip suit without the telescoping feature.
 
I'll put something together this week for you.

I've been testing a new BARE suit not yet out on the market. It's essentially an XCS2 with an extending torso. I'm not allowed to display it yet - but the point is that conveniently, I have the opportunity to have this same fabric in both an extending and nonextending torso model.

I can't really tell much difference between the two. This fabric is as stretchy as a 7 mil wetsuit, except that it's been hypercompressed down to about the thickness of a trilam.

Thin like a trilam... Stretchy like a wetsuit. It doesn't really need an extending torso. Works the same either way.

Diving it is fantastic... I keep mine empty... Equalized but empty. I do this by keeping my exhaust valve in the fully open position, and tapping the inflate valve every once in a while when the suit begins to squeeze.

...Actually, I've been testing exhaust valves too - sometimes I use a cuff dump on the shoulder (same size hole), which is basically a nonadjustable, simple, and flat exhaust valve. I actually prefer it.

...But my favorite exhaust valve thus far is a SiTech Trigon pee valve. Yes, you read that right. The top half of it mated with the bottom half of a standard SiTech exhaust valve. It's essentially a cuff dump, but with double check valves. It's the driest valve I've dived... And yes, all sizes and threads are interchangable.
 
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Yeah... Put the suit back on your list. The inherent stretch in the fabric is a much better, cleaner solution to movement than an extending torso. It extends more and makes for a much more comfortable dive with less gas necessary in the suit. Less buoyancy, too, than most trilam fabrics. Combined with less gas needed in the suit to maintain flexibility, and this suit really weights out more like a 5 mil than a drysuit.

It's awesome.

I've heard lots of people claim that the plastic TiZip and YKK zippers aren't as durable as metal ones... But I've had something like 30 different drysuits over the years, and the only problems I've had with zippers have been with metal ones. The teeth can bend and break, and the area around the zipper eventually frays and gets caught in the zip. There's also a constant need for waxing. Plastic zips have none of these problems, and virtually disappear underwater. They're great.

I know that not long ago DUI did a test on plastic vs. metal, and they hooked the two up to a machine and zipped back and forth quickly for many thousands of cycles. The plastic failed... Which to them proved the superiority of metal zips. I believe, however, that the plastic zip failed due to the heat of zipping back and forth hundreds of thousands of times very quickly, and in no way reflects a real-world test.

Meanwhile, in the real world, the plastic zips have proven to me to be a lot less problematic than metal ones... And more flexible, flatter, and less needy. I wouldn't buy a suit with a metal zip today.

I've heard, too, that a plastic zips can pull apart and separate laterally, but in 1000 dives with plastic zips, I've never seen it happen... Yet I have seen it happen with metal zips. I suspect that's because plastic zips zip together flat, and metal ones "mate" high and spine-like. When the two are pulled laterally, the plastic zip is pulled from a point of strength. The metal ones are rotated apart when pulled - a point of weakness. One bent tooth or fray and guess what? It'll come right apart. Plastic doesn't have this issue.

I visited Halcyon a month or two ago - who is the exclusive US importer of SANTI suits - and rhe drysuit guys there expressed a deep distain for plastic zips. They told me that they had many times more issues with plastic than metal... But my experience has been opposite. I fail to understand what they saw was the issue with plastic zips, despite me asking dozens of questions in an effort to understand their opinion. I simply disagree - plastic zips are the best thing to happen to drysuits since hypercompressed (or "crushed") neoprene... Which is far superior to trilaminate material (which is superior to standard wetsuit-type "compressed" neoprene).

Unfortunately, because drysuits last decades - and because worldwide drysuit sales are very small (something like 1500/yr - yes, I was shocked too), tech advancements in the market take FOREVER to come to fruition.

Trust me when I tell you that hypercompressed neoprene, nonextending torsos, plastic zips, and flat, nonadjustable exhaust valves are the way of future drysuits.
 
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I'll put something together this week for you.

I've been testing a new BARE suit not yet out on the market. It's essentially an XCS2 with an extending torso. I'm not allowed to display it yet - but the point is that conveniently, I have the opportunity to have this same fabric in both an extending and nonextending torso model.

...But my favorite exhaust valve thus far is a SiTech Trigon pee valve. Yes, you read thst right. The top half of it mated with the bottom half of a standard SiTech exhaust valve. It's essentially a cuff dump, but with double check valves. It's the driest valve I've dived... And yes, all sizes and threads are interchangable.

that would be awesome thx !!

very interesting. i have seen a couple of "neoprene" front zip suits with the telescoping feature but they are brands i cannot use.

yes i saw that. i have read this whole thread. i thought the low profile valve you trusted is a great idea. i always see divers getting caught on the traditional one when getting into their bcd. only concern would be the speed at which it would dump as you mentioned. only way to know would be to try one out i guess. but no one here would have a pee valve. i would have t special order one. looked like a great idea though.
 
I sent the idea of using the Trigon as an exhaust valve to BARE, who sent it to SiTech. Next thing I knew, I was talking to SiTech engineers and working with them to create some cool new solutions... All of which I now have in my posession. BARE also sent me several other brand name exhaust valves to test - including Apeks and Apollo (which I didn't even know made a drysuit exhaust valve).

My second favorite exhaust valve is a modified cuff dump. I opened it up and installed a fine mesh stainless steel screen (cut from a washable stainless steel coffee filter). It's incredibly flat and uber cool looking. Works really well, and is much drier than a standard exhaust valve of any brand.

...But it can still be made to leak. I'll feel a drop every now and then if I move my arm quickly in a current just right.

I've never had a drop leak using a Trigon. Double check valves catch any tiny drops and expel them the next time it vents. Totally dry.
 
Unfortunately, because drysuits last decades - and because worldwide drysuit sales are very small (something like 1500/yr - yes, I was shocked too), tech advancements in the market take FOREVER to come to fruition.

Trust me when I tell you that hypercompressed neoprene, nonextending torsos, plastic zips, and flat, nonadjustable exhaust valves are the way of future drysuits.
I was told by Steve Gamble that the average number of lifetime dives on a DUI dry suit was found to be (IIRC) about 50. Which shocked the hell out of me too.
 
Sounds about right.

For the good stuff that retails for maybe $4k (plus undergarments and accessories)... That's like $100 a dive.

Kinda sheds light on some things, especially when it comes to opinions about drysuits. :)

DUI - by far the world leader in drysuit sales - sold less than 1,000 suits last year. That's like 3 or 4 each weekday, globally.

...And with that number, they're supposed to pay all of their employees, the rent, and keep the lights on. I don't know how they do it.

...To say nothing of smaller manufacturers.

It's no wonder that advancements take decades to hit the market... Or why there seems to be such a disparity between what is new, cool, and good... Vs. what sells.
 
Getting into the suit is easy.


Plastic zippers stink.


Ive tried them....had numerous failures....seen numerous failures on my boat. They even have a tendency to leak without an actual failure (yes...EVEN if you lubricate it and ensure that it is fully closed).


Im going back to all metal as soon as I can.
 
Thanks for posting your experience.

Was this a YKK or a TiZip? Did it come on the suit as OEM, or was it added? What brand suit? How and where did the leak occur? Between me and the guys that work for me we've got maybe 2500 drysuit dives - and about a 50/50 mix of metal vs. plastic zip dives. We've found a LOT more problems with the metal zips, even in our commercial environment.

...Which is why I'm interested in your observations. Can you tell me more about them? Why do our experiences differ so much?
 
Thanks for posting your experience.

Was this a YKK or a TiZip? Did it come on the suit as OEM, or was it added? What brand suit? How and where did the leak occur? Between me and the guys that work for me we've got maybe 2500 drysuit dives - and about a 50/50 mix of metal vs. plastic zip dives. We've found a LOT more problems with the metal zips, even in our commercial environment.

...Which is why I'm interested in your observations. Can you tell me more about them? Why do our experiences differ so much?


Bare suit. Installed new from factory, replaced under warranty from Bare (twice).....

I could list others from my boat as well, but the above reference is my personal experience on a suit that was babied (stored well, not used on the aggressive dives, and taken care of well).

Im not alone. The plastic zippers are hit or miss and MANY, MANY repair places are stating so at this point. I have 2 other suits, including one with a metal zipper that is 5 years old and when I was shopping around for a replacement...2 VERY well respected repair places told me to stay away from plastic. One of these two was singing plastics praises 2 years prior.

Look - my sample size is only my boat and me....so I know that there are others out there with more experience.....but with that being said - Im done with them....and so are many others up this way.
 

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