Biggest thing killing dive shops?

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It was earlier this year, see their website Home. I don't see regulator service packages, have they ever openly sold them through dealers?
Wow! I had no idea. I guess I missed the memo.
I thought they were the inventors of the original strict "authorized dealer only" policy in which you can only buy their goods through a certified dealer. They were always the most protectionist.
It would seem to me that if they are deciding to undermine their dealers then they should do so in whole, and agree to sell everything including service parts to anybody who wants them, just like Hog and Deep Six do.
If I was an LDS owner and someone brought a reg in that was something that I was supposed to be an authorized dealer for, but they bought it direct to save a few bucks, I would feel a little like chopped liver perhaps. Like I'm good enough to service the stuff but not good enough to buy from?
I guess anything is better than nothing but it's still fighting for scraps.

...And as far as Dick's, Wal Wart, Target, Big 5, or any other big box store like those ever selling scuba diving gear like regs, BC's, computers, etc. don't hold your breath, LOL!
Snorkelling gear packages and swim and splash 3 mil wetsuits is about it. Even then it's going to be the cheapest crap they can get huge discounts on, not anything of any quality.
 
One thing I don’t see mentioned regarding manufacturers selling direct to consumers is the fact of service. Most people don't service their own gear, but if they start buying direct from the company to get a deal and cutting out the LDS isn’t that going to put a wedge in between the consumer and the local shop? I’m sure there are places to mail the reg away for service, but I don’t want to have to box up my reg, drive to UPS, stand in line and pay shipping to send it back to some service center.
I’d rather drop it off to my shop as I’m out doing other things.
Here is another possibility for that situation that may eventually come to pass.

The dive shop I mentioned earlier had an earlier attempt at a vendor for tech diving equipment--Salvo, a company that lasted --what?--6-7 months? In order to become a dealer for that criminal enterprise, the shop had to make a huge initial purchase, and I bought a large amount of gear so they could do it. That included my doubles regulators. After Salvo flopped, and I needed to have the regulators serviced, I contacted the new company that rose from the Salvo ashes, Light Monkey. They were servicing old Salvo lights, so I thought they would service the regulators, too. Nope, but the owner told me any Dive Rite operation could service them, because they were essentially Dive Rite knockoffs made in the same Taiwan factory. I called the nearest one I could find, and the said they could do it. I mailed them, but they came back a couple weeks later. They were similar to Dive Rites, but no Dive Rite service kit would work. I tried another shop, a very well known online dealer, and they, too, looked at them after I mailed them in and got back to me with bad news. That bad news included a suggestion that is the point of this post.

Even though the Salvo criminals had charged a lot for those regulators, they were really just middle of the road in quality. They were good enough for the diving I was doing with them, but they were not top of the line by any means. That shop said they could service them for me, but doing so would require that they combine two different service kits, which would, of course, raise the price. They told me that considering the cost of the servicing with the extra kit, it made more sense for me to buy new regulators of comparable quality.

People that complain about the cost of servicing a regulator have never seen it done. I don't do my own regularly, but I do it sometimes, and it takes a surprisingly long time to do it well. I think typical servicing fees are a bargain. People are supposed to get most regulators serviced every year, but for most people that is not really necessary. I foresee a time when people who are having trouble getting their gear serviced at reasonable prices locally will simply go without servicing for a few years and then buy new regulators. Doing that is in many cases already cheaper than annual servicing.

Years ago being TV repairman was good and steady employment. Now when a TV is no longer functioning, we can order a new one from Amazon much more easily than getting it fixed. I bet it gets to be that way with regulators. too.
 
People that complain about the cost of servicing a regulator have never seen it done. I don't do my own regularly, but I do it sometimes, and it takes a surprisingly long time to do it well. I think typical servicing fees are a bargain. People are supposed to get most regulators serviced every year, but for most people that is not really necessary. I foresee a time when people who are having trouble getting their gear serviced at reasonable prices locally will simply go without servicing for a few years and then buy new regulators. Doing that is in many cases already cheaper than annual servicing.


I'm sorry... But I'm someone who used to service regulators for a reasonably large dive business in a tropical location (as well as being an instructor full time), this is nonsense.

It takes me about 15 mins to service a set of regs. For a twinset with an extra first stage I would take that up to 20 mins. If they need a bath in an ultrasonic cleaner I can make a cup of tea or strip something else down whilst it's working it's magic.

And I'm not particularly quick or good! I know one person who can service a full set of shop regs in about 8 mins.
 
I always enjoy a good LDS thread, and this is one of the better ones we've had, for sure! Here's my backstory, which I think is relevant to my thoughts on the matter.

In 2006 I moved to a remote island in Alaska. No dive shop for 1000 miles. We bought gear online or in shops while we were travelling, and sent it out for service. We had a local independent instructor who worked for UAF Sea Grant, a fire department with a compressor, and a dozen or so active local divers. In 2007 we lost access to the fire department compressor and one of the members bought a MaxAir 35 and started taking care of our air fills for us. It didn't take long filling 30+ tanks with that little compressor to realize it was inadequate, so we formed a proper club, fundraised, and bought a much larger compressor. Dues were $100 per year, which got you access to all the fills and loaner tanks you want. The club is still active, financially secure, has paid to train another instructor, and is currently buying a second compressor and loaner gear. They train some quality local divers!

This is on a small island with a population of 4000 people, and every conceivable challenge you can think of. If it can be done there, it can be done anywhere.

Fast forward to 2012. I moved to Alaska's largest city and away from the dive club. I no longer had the ability to do my own gas fills and there aren't abundant shore diving options here. I needed a dive shop to provide fills and to offer local diving opportunities. At the time of the move, I had multiple sets of dive gear and training above what the shop could offer. Despite making no major purchases, as a weekly customer I spent over $10k at this shop in two years.

What I received in exchange:
  • Inconvenience. Tank fills took two, 45 minute trips.
  • Consistent poor customer service, best described as surly and lazy.
  • Steady stream of lies, half-truths and misinformation.
  • Verbal abuse for purchasing gear online, that was better quality than what the shop was selling. Ironically, the shop now sells some of that same gear.
  • Regular short fills on cylinders, charged as if they were filled to rated pressure. This cost me $300-500 per year.
  • Poor turnaround time on equipment service. Faster, less expensive, more convenient and better quality when I started sending it out.
  • Dive boat trips catered to new divers at the expense of experienced divers. Literally.
  • Pressure to be a "loyal" customer of this dive shop and this dive shop only.
  • Poor selection of dive sites. Shop actively discouraged divers from diving anywhere other than 1 shore diving site and off their boat.
  • Exposure to the owner's poor business skills and messy personal relationships.
  • Obvious focus on vacation and tourist divers over local divers.
What I needed was gas fills and diving opportunities, but the LDS made obtaining both of those miserable. It was further compounded by my personal situation; it's quite a shock to have your dive expenses increase by more than 30 fold. When I complained, I was labeled as "cheap" and a "bad customer", when the reality was I comparatively wasn't getting a good value for my money.

That relationship went to crap in a hurry and I was banned from the shop/boat and lost the majority of the "friends" and dive buddies I made since the move. I considered starting a new dive club, but ultimately decided that I was long-term invested enough in scuba at this point that it just made sense to become 100% independent of clubs or shops.

In 2014 I bought a compressor and dive boat and started identifying other local diving options. No surprise (we're surrounded by over 150,000 square miles of accessible coastline), I found plenty. Made new friends and dive buddies, and upgraded to a larger boat in 2015, and again in 2016. With all of the available options at this point, I have enough local diving to fill several lifetimes.

So yes, I would echo some of the comments in this thread than being a "shop-independent" diver is a beautiful thing. I dive more often, at a wider variety of dive sites than I ever did when I relied solely on the local dive shop. I have zero stress or outside pressures related to diving. I don't worry if my local dive shop is going to shut its doors; I know I'll keep on diving regardless. If enough of my dive buddies end up needing gas fills to continue diving, we'll figure out a solution.

As an aside, in 2015 or so I built a relationship with the other local dive shop. It wasn't so much for myself, as for my dive buddies who were looking for alternatives. The owner and I had an understanding from the beginning that there wouldn't be a financial relationship, as I was self-sustaining at this point. In exchange for supporting my buddies the best she could, I helped develop her local diving knowledge and experience and took her on some pretty awesome local dive trips. I helped with some simple fill-station upgrades that made it easier and less costly to produce the nitrox fills my dive buddies needed. Unfortunately, being in close proximity to another local dive shop just exposed me to 90% of the same problems as the first, with some new twists that were unacceptable.

We're dealing with systemic problems with many local dive shops that go far beyond the "internet sales" gremlin. These problems are compounded in areas without competition or readily available, easily accessible local diving. In these shops, the farther up the pyramid you get, the worse the experience becomes.

The biggest thing killing the dive shop is the dive shop itself.
 
I can’t remember if it has been mentioned or not but another source of revenue that could be drying up for the LDS is travel.

When I first started putting together my own trips for my friends and I, I would occasionally run into situations where the liveaboard or resort would only give us a commission and free spots if we booked thru an actual dive shop. That was a long time ago. I have not run into that in years. Those perks that were once only reserved for dive shops can now be enjoyed by pretty much anyone. We can save hundreds and in some cases over $1000 per person on trips. I don’t think many of the folks that dive with us book shop trips anymore.
 
I'm sorry... But I'm someone who used to service regulators for a reasonably large dive business in a tropical location (as well as being an instructor full time), this is nonsense.

It takes me about 15 mins to service a set of regs. For a twinset with an extra first stage I would take that up to 20 mins. If they need a bath in an ultrasonic cleaner I can make a cup of tea or strip something else down whilst it's working it's magic.

And I'm not particularly quick or good! I know one person who can service a full set of shop regs in about 8 mins.
Well, then I guess it's nonsense. I certainly can't do it in anything close to that and do a proper job. The techs I have worked with take a whole lot longer than that, too.

Now, I do know one guy who could do it really fast. The dive shop for which I worked originally did not service mares, so when you brought in a Mares regulator (like my old Abyss), they sent it out to another shop. I did that every year for a number of years, and then I had trouble with it only a few months after getting it serviced. The shop sent it back to that guy to have it serviced again. I got it back, went diving, and had the same problem. Our shop then sent it to Mares to see why it was not working right. When Mares returned it, they said it was obvious to them that the regulator had never been serviced, and that was the source of the trouble I was having.
 
Two comments....well maybe three....

I think the comments about flat incomes and erroded living standards apply greatly. Ive spent my life on the St Lawrence River. Over Last decade the number of boats on the water has dropped. Used boats dont sell anymore because anyone that can afford a boat buys a new boat. Most people just cant afford a boat anymore. Now if people want to go on the water they kayak.

Leisure Pro. Not sure if we should be counting LP as a model, or maybe we should. They are not just scuba gear. They also sell cameras through aldorama so they are sharing infrastructure. But they also have no idea what they are selling or how it works. LP is just an online retailer thst happens to be selling scuba gear.

If local shops want to survive in the online market they need to focus on the customers and stop acting like fanchises of Aqualung, etc. Sell people what they need and want rather than convincing them what Aqualung sells is what they want and everything else on the market is dangerous. I still love the irony that used regulators are dangerous even if serviced by the shop but a new regulator that is serviced buy the same shop is somehow safer.
 
But will it work?

I'd hope so. He runs a workshop that exclusively services equipment for most shops in probably the busiest diving location on the planet. He also trains other people on how to service equipment. And has done all the above for 30 years.

I am yet to die with my 15 minute jobs - and even the 20 min twinset reg services have kept me alive down to 90 odd meters. Maybe I'm just lucky.
 
If local shops want to survive in the online market they need to focus on the customers and stop acting like fanchises of Aqualung, etc. Sell people what they need and want rather than convincing them what Aqualung sells is what they want and everything else on the market is dangerous. I still love the irony that used regulators are dangerous even if serviced by the shop but a new regulator that is serviced buy the same shop is somehow safer.
I understand that dive shops get significant additional discounts if they sign deals with Aqualung (etc) to have all their staff dive aqualung (etc) gear. I talked to the Aqualung rep that covers NM a few years back and he said that he's not a jerk about granting wavers to LDS staff to dive gear they already own, but it's not automatic either.
 
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