LCHF or Ketogenic Diet

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All I know is I am not gaining weight drinking rum and coke zero. I am also not overdoing it however.
 
Not my area but as I understand it. Hard Liquor alcohol can be thought of as outside the typical macronutrient cycle. It doesnt function as a traditional carb and isn’t converted to glycogen for storage. Liquor “energy” is used first when available and those calories are burned rather than stored. Individuals that consume high levels of liquor have a lot of health concerns but storing those calories is not one of them. But when the body is metabolizing alcohol it is not burning fat or sugar calories. That can impact weight.
 
Eric, do you have any evidence of this or can link studies? I looked into this before I started and since and while there is a lot of speculation for such I can find very little solid evidence of damage in healthy individuals. And FWIW there is a mice (yes more mice) study that showed some reversal in kidney damage in mice with induced diabetic nephropathy.
I have read and heard many things, but as always there is a lot of derogatory and contradictory info put out there supporting both theories.
I know that when your body goes into full ketosis (burning fat to produce glycogen for your brain) you get the bad breath and metallic taste in your mouth. I also noticed in increase in urination. The residual by product of massive fat burning are ketones, basically the same chemistry as acetone. It takes four times as much fat to produce the same amount of glycogen as carbs, that’s why those diets work so fast. It’s also why at first you get really light headed, your body is trying to switch fuel sources to keep your brain functioning. But then once you get used to burning that much fat to run your body, going back to carbs can have such a disastrous effect with weight gain. It’s almost like you diet yourself into a corner, and then there is no way to get out of it except to gain back a lot of weight. If you want to stay skinny you almost are a prisoner of your diet. The ketonic diet (AKA the starvation diet) in it’s strictest form is a fairly new concept in society. I don’t know if the long term affects either way have been fully realized yet. Although the indigenous peoples of the far north (eskimos) historically ate nothing but fish and whale blubber. There might have been a little sea weed in there too? and it seems like they did just fine for thousands of years. It wasn’t until the late 19th century and 20th century when they were exposed to alcohol and all the other crap the white man brought that they began to have bad weight and health problems.
 
metallic taste in your mouth. I also noticed in increase in urination.

I thought it was just me, I noticed both of these

The ketonic diet (AKA the starvation diet)

IDK why it’s referred to a starvation n diet – I am eating as much if not double what I used to – its just not high in carbs. So I don’t agree you’re a slave to the diet…

It wasn’t until the late 19th century and 20th century when they were exposed to alcohol and all the other crap the white man brought that they began to have bad weight and health problems.

Anything in excess is bad for you just about.
 
I thought it was just me, I noticed both of these



IDK why it’s referred to a starvation n diet – I am eating as much if not double what I used to – its just not high in carbs. So I don’t agree you’re a slave to the diet…



Anything in excess is bad for you just about.
They call it the starvation diet because your body switches fuel sources to keep your brain alive. It’s similar in nature to not eating at all where your body burns up all it’s fat stores and muscle mass to survive. The difference is, on keto you’re eating so you don’t necessarily lose muscle mass as rapidly, but you are still weaker and don’t have the readily available glycogen to power up your body. But they still call it the starvation diet because that’s what your body thinks you’re doing to it.
Keto Diet Dangers You Should Know About
 
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Again, not exactly my area. A starvation diet and a LCHF diet are not the same although its true that a starvetion diet is most likely keto but the reverse is not true. And LCHF is not necessarily keto.

So called starvation diets severely restrict caloric intact. Fasting is often a part of the caloric limitations. There is some evidence that this may reduce morbidity and prolong life. Prehaps by triggering a reduction in Insulin Like Growth Factor or IGF-1. IGF-1 promotes growth, especially in puberty but is also associated with aging in some species. Other studies have suggested that “slimmer” individuals (as long as they meet minimum nutritional requirements) have less illness and disease and live longer then obese or even “normal weight” individuals.

But research also shows that diets indeed do not work and that when stopped there is a rebound effect, keto/fasting/weightwatchers/Adkins.... This is why I amended my thought/thread to lifestyle rather than diet.

As to the linked article, I had run across it before when I first starting exploring LCHF. Like articles about diving from nonprofessional sites may contain unintentional misconception or be misleading, this articale is similar from a medical standpoint. And I am sure you even noticed the conflicting opinions and little linked studies. Of course that part is little different than any medical discussion.

BTW for me the keto signal is a nighttime dry mouth.
 
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All I can say to anybody who is considering eliminating an entire food group, please just be careful.
There is way too much conflicting info out there both pro and con.
Check with your doctor, although it may not do much good because they may not have anymore info than you do. Opinions vary widely. Also don’t just go with something you “want” to hear instead of well documented solid evidence. Everybody is different too, what may work well for one person could be very hazardous for another. I also believe that there is some genetic coding that may make some humans better suited to those types of diets.

Personally, I decided that the extreme nature of the Keto diet was just too risky for my health without further study. We’re not pure carnivores like wolves or wild cats. We do not have the ability to manufacture vitamin C. We’re primates and we’re omnivores.
We’re not cows or deer either who have huge digestive systems capable of leeching out every last drop of protein from grass.
I get into it all the time with some of these pure vegan idiots who have made it their political quest to shame anybody who eats animal protein.
 
Eric, I would be glad to dine with ya anyday, buddy. Eat and drink sensibly. Moderation. Exercise. Enjoy life. One can only eat so much fatty meat before the idea loses its novelty. One of my great joys is eating fruit right off the tree or bush. Picking apples from the orchard, or happening across some blackberries when I'm on a hike, is just plain fun--and nutritious.

I can't argue with someone like uncfnp who has read and actually understands published studies on this topic. But my intuition tells me that living in ketosis or a "state" of anything else for a long period of time needs more study before I am convinced it's not damaging my body.
 
The nutritional lines between fruit and veggies are blurring. The 5 a Day campaign is an example. The recommendation was for fruits and veggies (not starches) each day (in any combination) but undated studies have shown a greater benefit from veggies and should actually be closer to 10 servings a day (800 grams). Eric mentioned Vit C but that’s not just oranges. Broccoli, kale, strawberries, tomatoes, bell peppers are all rich in C.

Many talk about lack of fruits. Its true I no longer eat a lot bananas. But instead I have berries and the occasional mandarin orange, kiwi, strawberries... Even so I probably eat more fruits than most Americans.

So just how has my “diet” changed? There is no need to be all keto comando to see the benefits. My meat consumption really has not changed. I love a good steak so nothing new there. Chicken, fish, shrimp, scallops, roasts, chops (lamb and pork). I do eat breakfast now and so do eat more bacon and eggs, more cheese. And instead of low fat I pick full fat options. I use heavy cream in my espresso. I do not eat potatoes, rice or pasta. I still have a salad for lunch 2 to 3 times a week but now I allow myself to top it with cheese, chicken (grilled not breaded) and dressing! It’s really hard to argue that this is unhealthily in any aspect.

I can’t argue that few Americans will choose a keto or even LCHF lifestyle. Lets face it. Few Americans have a healthy diet even when they claim to eat healthy. Too many of us consume starches as our primary veggie. Fruits are few and usually limited to a small selection of the “sweetest” options. High cost of berries limit consumption. Fast food is rampant and typical options have very limited nutritional value. We are growing fat on low nutritional foods so going LCHF will likely actually improve the typical American diet.

I content that if the “average” American adopts a LCHF lifestyle he/she will lose weight and ultimately eat more healthy than currently. The will have to stop eating foods with no or limited nutritional value. It also means less processed foods. This alone would be an improvement in the average American diet.
 
I'll add that many people want a "quick fix"--they want to relatively quickly lose weight that took them years to put on. Unless one is morbidly obese, a quick fix isn't really necessary. For some, maybe simply cutting way back (though not necessarily to zero) on the sugar, bread, pasta, fries, etc., and getting less sedentary would result in slow, steady weight loss. I agree with uncfnp's opinion of "no need to get all keto commando to see the benefits." Obese people didn't get there just by enjoying a single sweet piece of fruit every day. Gaining just 3-4 pounds a year over the course of 10 years is how many of us ended up being told by our doctors that we're overweight.
 

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