Dive Trip/Travel Insurance?

[Dogbowl]

"Annual"? HA! No, that's for a 22-day trip to Fiji for a liveaboard plus some land-based stuff. I would imagine it's based in part on age, and our friend OOO is younger than me. It's also a long-ish trip. And that's the highest level they offer, "Elite."

I have no words.

 

[KeithG]

I am aware. But I am trying to take into account the probability of any such event. Sure, the larger the pool of family members who could need your assistance, the more likely such an event is. Also, as I see it, it depends on the nature of the illness and the recovery period for that illness. Some major illness or injury, or death, is less likely than catching the flu. How much time is there between now--when I purchase cancellation insurance--and the trip? And in the event of a super-grave situation, being reimbursed for some vacation I had booked is going to be low on my list of concerns. It's all about probabilities and their costs, which the insurance companies have figured out with precision, and which the insurance companies are content to have us inflate in our minds. The premiums for what I see as any sort of useful coverage are not insignificant. DiveAssure quotes me well over $2000 for my wife and me (avg. age ~50) for Elite level policy (secondary insurance) with Liveaboard Rider.

You are getting ripped. Look for a different product.

We started at around $400 for 2 people for our annual product. It has screamed up to around $1000 a year since we jammed up the limits. These are $CDN. On my next renewal I expect it to be back down to around $600.

 

[outofofficebrb]

@Lorenzoid how much are you insuring for when they are quoting you $2K for 2 people? I wonder how much it changes by if you dial it down to just the parts you are most worried about - flight and liveaboard portions only - and get deluxe instead of elite.

I will PM you my coverage amounts and prices. Not the same since age and locations that we live in are different but you can use for reference.

 

[Lorenzoid]

You are getting ripped. Look for a different product.

We started at around $400 for 2 people for our annual product. It has screamed up to around $1000 a year since we jammed up the limits. These are $CDN. On my next renewal I expect it to be back down to around $600.

OOO PM'd me with numbers, but I think I'll repeat my reply here. So I backed the coverage down in DiveAssure's quote tool to see what effect it would have. Deluxe level secondary insurance with LOB rider for a single 22-day trip to Fiji in August, with $8k cancellation amount, yields a premium quote of $1584 for the two of us.

I'm starting to think about "self-insuring." If I deposit that $1500 or so in an investment account now, and then do the same thing on the next trip, etc., then if the insurance company's presumed estimate of the probability of having to pay out $8000 for cancellation is correct (that is, they would "win their bet") I should have accumulated somewhat more than $8000 in that account by the time I suffer a misfortune that causes me to have to cancel. Well, something like that. The insurance covers more than just cancellation/interruption, of course. I could "lose the bet" and suffer a greater loss earlier, but unless it would bankrupt me or something (which it won't), how is this any different than playing cards in Vegas? You win some, you lose some. The long-term loss is simply the cost of the hobby. How's that thinking?

 

[Dogbowl]

OOO PM'd me with numbers, but I think I'll repeat my reply here. So I backed the coverage down in DiveAssure's quote tool to see what effect it would have. Deluxe level secondary insurance with LOB rider for a single 22-day trip to Fiji in August, with $8k cancellation amount, yields a premium quote of $1584 for the two of us.

I'm starting to think about "self-insuring." If I deposit that $1500 or so in an investment account now, and then do the same thing on the next trip, etc., then if the insurance company's presumed estimate of the probability of having to pay out $8000 for cancellation is correct (that is, they would "win their bet") I should have accumulated somewhat more than $8000 in that account by the time I suffer a misfortune that causes me to have to cancel. Well, something like that. The insurance covers more than just cancellation/interruption, of course. I could "lose the bet" and suffer a greater loss earlier, but unless it would bankrupt me or something (which it won't), how is this any different than playing cards in Vegas? You win some, you lose some. The long-term loss is simply the cost of the hobby. How's that thinking?

At some point, where the insurance premiums are so high as to be seriously prohibitive, I will ask myself, if I can’t go on the trip for whatever reason, what is the maximum amount of money I am out of? Usually, it’s the cost of the trip. If I lose that amount of money, it will hurt badly, but it will not put me into financial ruin. If I had to pay several hundred or even several thousand to take a water taxi/seaplane to a missed liveaboard, for example, it is still simply several hundred or several thousand dollars more out of pocket. And I can choose not to do so and cut my costs right there. Again, I will not be thrown into financial ruin and lose my house. After that kind of reasoning, and if the premiums were truly prohibitive, I would decide to forego trip cancellation and trip interruption insurance.

I will not, however, forego travel emergency medical or dive accident insurance under any circumstances. If things go south from a medical perspective, it can get REALLY bad. It may mean that we will not receive emergency medical care as needed to save our lives, or may mean that we will be liable for hundreds of thousands (or more) in medical/evacuation costs. THAT WILL put us in financial ruin and we WILL lose our house. Plus, travel emergency medical and dive accident insurance are usually reasonably affordable, as compared to trip cancellation and trip interruption.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I agree, @Dogbowl . I have DAN dive accident insurance (Guardian level) and a pretty good level of GeoBlue travel medical insurance, so the cost-benefit analysis that is tormenting me is at least limited to cancellation/interruption and all those other possible misfortunes that have been discussed. Accident/medical care while out of the US is a separate issue for me.

Part of the difficulty in the analysis is that so much is lumped together in these policies; it would be a lot more transparent for us consumers if insurers offered "a la carte" coverage, and then offered additional discounts off the total premium for customers who choose to package them together.

 

[outofofficebrb]

I agree, @Dogbowl . I have DAN dive accident insurance (Guardian level) and a pretty good level of GeoBlue travel medical insurance, so the cost-benefit analysis that is tormenting me is at least limited to cancellation/interruption and all those other possible misfortunes that have been discussed. Accident/medical care while out of the US is a separate issue for me.

Part of the difficulty in the analysis is that so much is lumped together in these policies; it would be a lot more transparent for us consumers if insurers offered "a la carte" coverage, and then offered additional discounts off the total premium for customers who choose to package them together.

If only they made it like car insurance...Progressive has a great user interface that lets you add and subtract specific coverage aspects and amounts so you can see in real time how it affects your premium.

 

[Dogbowl]

I agree, @Dogbowl . I have DAN dive accident insurance (Guardian level) and a pretty good level of GeoBlue travel medical insurance, so the cost-benefit analysis that is tormenting me is at least limited to cancellation/interruption and all those other possible misfortunes that have been discussed. Accident/medical care while out of the US is a separate issue for me.

Part of the difficulty in the analysis is that so much is lumped together in these policies; it would be a lot more transparent for us consumers if insurers offered "a la carte" coverage, and then offered additional discounts off the total premium for customers who choose to package them together.

I can’t agree more, @Lorenzoid. I am also just struggling with coverage for trip cancellation, interruption, and liveaboard. I haven’t received a quote from the rep yet but I suspect it will be high. I’m well covered from a travel medical and dive accident perspective. I have travel medical from work and my credit card, and have DAN Guardian and a Dive Assure dive accident policy that came free from Diviac when I purchased my liveaboard trip from them. When I asked Dive Assure about “adding” the liveaboard rider, they said I couldn’t just “add” it “a la carte”; I would have to buy a separate policy that includes dive accident and liveaboard rider. Frustrating.

I’m not sure if Blue Cross is available in the US, but the Canadian Blue Cross policies do have “a la carte” trip cancellation and interruption, which I am currently considering. It’s not a liveaboard-specific coverage, but it might be sufficient for our purposes.

 

[Dogbowl]

Here are links to the Canadian and American DAN Member Benefits Handbooks:

Divers Alert Network

See page 25 of the American Handbook. It does seem to have diving vacation cancellation and interruption coverage. It says in that handbook that it’s for Preferred plans only. The American plans are Preferred, Master, and Standard, with Preferred being the highest coverage.

Canadian plans have Guardian, Preferred, and Master, with Guardian being the highest coverage. So based on that, I think @jonhall quoted from the Canadian Handbook. Nevertheless, the coverage does exist in the American Handbook.

I just read the Canadian Handbook and it also has this coverage. I didn’t think it did when I read it more than a year ago so maybe it’s newish? The Handbook says 2016 so I don’t know. Anyway, I’m very glad this coverage exists.

The key is that it must be sickness or injury that impairs your ability to dive. This means that if I get a cold or if my buddy gets a cold and can’t dive, I can cancel?!? That’s HUGE! I’ve got to go re-read it cause I can’t believe it.

There is no cancellation or interruption coverage for other reasons. So, it is not equivalent to the Dive Assure liveaboard rider, which covers more situations.

The Liveaboard Rider

I have gone back to the DAN website and realized my post above is not entirely accurate. The US has 2 DAN policies: one has Guardian, Preferred and Master plans, and the other has Preferred, Master and
Standard plans. It is dependent on state of residence. Furthermore, the 2016 policies I found on the internet are not the current plans.

 

[jonhall]

and a pretty good level of GeoBlue travel medical insurance

Interested in the travel medical insurance. Had Anthem Blue Cross up until this year which gave me some coverage when traveling internationally. For 2018, in Indiana, I had a whopping 2 choices for a carrier, neither of whom provide any coverage abroad.

Looking briefly at the GeoBlue website, it reads that one must have a primary health plan to purchase their plans. Does that mean a primary that covers me internationally? Looking for the quick answer although I know I can call them.