LDS trust factor issues

[Jonny Wishbone]

So I have several steel tanks, 2 of which just got Hydro's and vip'd from my LDS 5 months ago. They farm the Hydro's out and do the vip upon them being returned to the shop.After i got them back they were sitting in my house, full awaiting to get wet.These tanks have not been used until last weekend where they were filled twice at Blue Grotto and then brought back home where they sat with about 1000 psi. Today I dropped them off at my LDS to get 02 cleaned for Nitrox use. As I was shooting the breeze with the Owner, the tech comes out and said the tanks are terrible inside with surface rust. I proceeded to explain that they were Hydro'd and vip'd here and stored until last weekend. The owner said they don't charge for tumbling when they 02 clean so no big deal. What pi$$e$ me off is they were the ones who just vip'd them after the Hydro. This is the first Hydro required since new so they are not that old. I'm thinking the valves were re-installed into the tanks on a humid day and trapped moisture in the tank as their tank work station is under roof but exposed to the outdoors. Unless the Hydro facility did not dry them but one would think the tech would have seen the rust when he conducted the vip. What else could have been the culprit of moisture? They are a 5 star shop and claim they always have good air. They only have 02 compatible air weather they are filling air or partial pressure Nitrox so it is Hyperfiltered. This leads me to question how they do things as I do not believe at a resort like Blue Grotto you would get moisture in a fill. It is crap like this why I learned to service my own regs. So the main question here is how did these tanks get surface rust so soon??? I do have another smaller steel tank that was Hydro'd and vip'd along with the other 2 and has not been used anywhere since. I suppose I could get it 02 cleaned too and see what the inside of it looks like.That will tell me where it got moisture weather it was Blue Grotto or my LDS but what say you?

 

[lowviz]

...//... As I was shooting the breeze with the Owner, the tech comes out and said the tanks are terrible inside with surface rust. ...

"Terrible" is rather subjective. Did you go back and look? No big deal to tumble a tank, not all that expensive either.

...//... I do have another smaller steel tank that was Hydro'd and vip'd along with the other 2 and has not been used anywhere since. I suppose I could get it 02 cleaned too and see what the inside of it looks like.That will tell me where it got moisture weather it was Blue Grotto or my LDS but what say you?

I'll put my nickel on a wet fill...

 

[Bubblesong]

I’d really like to hear about what you see inside that last tank. Is there another LDS place you can take it to that will let you see inside?

 

[Johnoly]

.... So the main question here is how did these tanks get surface rust so soon??? ...

Most rust comes from water. That water usually comes from the compressor.

In the future when you present your tanks for ANY fill, the 1st question you should ask before price is :
"Does your compressor have auto-drains?"
If the answer is no, then you are rolling the dice the fill guy is 100% 'un-distractable' which is rare.

I also have a transfer fill whip that I use on multiple tanks. After a dive day and tanks are low, but before taking them to get filled, I'll look inside. Out of 3 tanks I'll empty the lowest psi one, remove the valve and drop some white christmas lights inside to see for myself. Then re-install the valve and 'fill whip' from the next highest psi tank. Empty it and repeat till you have looked inside all of them.

I look inside my steel tanks after anytime using someone outside my regular compressor.(Probably 4-6 times a year no matter what)

I tell people I need to do a "Ronald Reagan" on my tanks,,,,,,,,,,Trust But Verify.

 

[Colliam7]

So I have several steel tanks, 2 of which just got Hydro's and vip'd from my LDS 5 months ago. . . . After i got them back they were sitting in my house, full awaiting to get wet.These tanks have not been used until last weekend where they were filled twice at Blue Grotto and then brought back home where they sat with about 1000 psi. . . . As I was shooting the breeze with the Owner, the tech comes out and said the tanks are terrible inside with surface rust.

Three thoughts:

1. I don't think you should get PO'd at the shop. I don't think this is an issue of 'LDS trust' at all.

2. A wet fill at BG is a reasonable culprit, here. That is NOT a criticism of BG, just a statement of probability.

3. I don't know what the tec defines as 'terrible'. When I VIP cylinders and see a light, even extensive coating of flash rust, I don't necessarily consider that 'terrible' - obviously it depends on the situation.

I have a pair of HP120s that were treated identically for years - hydro'd at the same time / place, filled at the same time / place, VIP'd at the same time / place (by me). One cylinder always remained pristine, one cylinder always developed a very light / minimal coat of flash rust. It happens.

 

[Wookie]

Every hydro facility I've ever come across (which is 10 or 12) always puts a rust inhibitor in the cylinder after hydro. I'd wager a small amount on a wet fill also. It's amazing what one drop of water between the valve face and the fill whip will completely coat the inside of the cylinder and flash it, and it happens almost before your eyes.

 

[Bubblesong]

Every hydro facility I've ever come across (which is 10 or 12) always puts a rust inhibitor in the cylinder after hydro. .

Is that safe to breathe?

 

[ScubaBunga]

First - I trust my LDS. BUT - If you own steel tanks, it's probably just a fact of life that you should get good at looking inside your tanks, possibly getting a tumbler - or know someone who has one. I've helped my lds do mass visuals of their rental tanks after hydros and out of a couple dozen tanks, there was one that didn't get dried out - it happens. If that was a steel, you're gonna get some rust. I'm not sure if proper care at resort shops has gone down (as has most customer service it seems) but I had tanks from my father (from the 60's) and didn't have rust issues until recently - although several of those tanks had liners in them until I had to tumble them out due to recent concerns with those liners. I don't check every fill like Johnoly but do check several times a year and will tumble as needed.

I don't use a rust inhibitor at this point - just make sure they are really clean - any suggestions for a good/safe rust inhibitor?

 

[Wookie]

First - I trust my LDS. BUT - If you own steel tanks, it's probably just a fact of life that you should get good at looking inside your tanks, possibly getting a tumbler - or know someone who has one. I've helped my lds do mass visuals of their rental tanks after hydros and out of a couple dozen tanks, there was one that didn't get dried out - it happens. If that was a steel, you're gonna get some rust. I'm not sure if proper care at resort shops has gone down (as has most customer service it seems) but I had tanks from my father (from the 60's) and didn't have rust issues until recently - although several of those tanks had liners in them until I had to tumble them out due to recent concerns with those liners. I don't check every fill like Johnoly but do check several times a year and will tumble as needed.

I don't use a rust inhibitor at this point - just make sure they are really clean - any suggestions for a good/safe rust inhibitor?

I use blue-gold, which has the added bonus of O2 cleaning. Global makes other products

 

[Jonny Wishbone]

Thanks guys for all the replies. You guys do have valid points. Yes, I did not think of there could have been water droplets inside the tank valve as one of these were DIN and able to hold a bit more water. They have a guy at BG that comes around on a golf cart to see if you need a fill and he takes your tank, gets it filled and for you and brings it back so I was not there to check to make sure the valve was dry. Its a good service and he works for tips. Beats lugging your tanks back to the fill station. I do like the idea of every now and then maybe several times a year to remove the valve and have a look in there then just put a few hundred psi in it from another tank. This is the same shop I have been dealing with since 1987 and for the most part they are great. But its also the same shop that I seemed to always have had issues with my regs after a service so I learned to do my own. I'm very meticulous with my stuff and I guess I just expect other people to be meticulous with their service. I know a business has to make money and someone somewhere always seems to be cutting corners everywhere. It is the way of the world these days. Anyhow, thanks again and I'll post after I have the smaller tank done and see what was in there....