It really doesn't matter what flight times I book; airlines will do what they want

[DandyDon]

I'm down to one trip to Coz a year these days. I still love traveling, but slowed down on scuba trips so I could explore other places. Anyway, I like to go in late August for my birthday and to avoid families with school kids (it's challenging enough to travel with my own grandkids!), and it's always a game trying to pay the airlines as little as possible on reasonable flights and connections while accumulating FF-miles that seem impossible to use at the 20-20K rate advertised. Gawd, I miss the 1980s when FF-miles were fun.

Long range planning works best for both sides I think, so I can make sure I take the trips I want, and so the airlines can know well in advance how much business they will do - as well as using my money prepaid for the flights over those months. I'm often tempted to wait and see what they'll put on sale a month in advance as they start liquidating unsold seats, but then I end up arguing with myself. If I find an appealing fares several months in advance, I'd rather book & plan - but I know all too well from experience that regardless of how nice the flight times and connections look when I do, the airlines can and will change my flights to whatever works best for them.

I don't want to give up and stay home tho, so I keep telling myself this is part of the adventure of travel, like all of those weather and equipment delays that have left me in airports for many hours longer than planned. It was bad when I took the kids on a trip starting in Death Valley when we realized that we could have driven faster. My sweet daughter amazed me a couple of years ago flying to South Dakota, as our Lubbock-Denver flight was delayed leaving for weather, our connecting flight had already closed the doors - and that's never negotiable, and my studies had showed no good backup flights. I thought we were stuck, but our connecting flight was delayed taxiing away, and she talked them into reopening the doors! I really thought that was impossible, but it was good for both sides as they didn't have to deal with us.

So, last December I started searching flights and on a lark - tried using FF-miles to book my trip at the lowest mileage possible. Amazingly, I found flights I liked and danged sure booked them!

Lubbock @ 10:22am to DFW @ 11:35am
DFW @ 12:15pm to CZM @ 3pm.​

How nice, not having to leave the house in the we hours of the night to catch a 6am flight, a tight connection but usually doable instead of hours bored laying over, and arriving later than I like but surely early enough to get my pony to my Op, enjoy supper, and get ready for the next day.

Haha, right. Then in March, they notified me of my real flights...

LBB @ 8:15am to DFW @ 9:35am
DFW @ 12:15 to CZM @ 3pm​

Great, now they want me there more than 2 hours earlier, and to spend almost 3 hours chilling in the exciting DFW airport. Yeah, right. The boring part of the adventure.

I have been waiting to see what else they'll do to my trip, but now we're on the final two month countdown, I guess it's time to call them, play dumb, and tell them I just noticed my flights are different. If I have to leave the house in the dark and be at the airport at sunup, oh well - I might as well leave the house at an earlier dark hour for a dark departure.

LBB @ 5:04am to DFW @ 6:16am
DFW @ 7:20am to CUN @ 10am​

Get an earlier start, a short but reasonable connection, should be easier to sleep on the boring plane rides, go thru Cancun, ride the bus to PDC in time for lunch, arrive in Coz around 2pm. Well hell, I'm not gaining much - and it may not go that well!

I am in a position to negotiate, but I can't see anything I want to ask for. They changed my return, too. The 3 hour connection I had was more than I wanted, but now they have me bored in DFW for 3-¾ hours.

What else can I ask for that they might agree to...??

 

[hdtran]

Wait--they can't change your destination airport, can they? Usually, when my schedule gets changed, there's a message saying that I can change my schedule (with some conditions) at no fee.

Based on your changing aircraft at DFW, I'm assuming you're flying on AA. I'm sure that if you speak with an agent, you can say that being rescheduled to a different airport doesn't work, and they should book you on flights to your original airport (even with ff/miles).

Best of luck!

 

[Mr. Manfrenjensenden]

Wait--they can't change your destination airport, can they?

Yes, they can. They guarantee nothing. Here's a paragraph from Delta's contract of carriage; other airlines will have similar language:

"Delta will exercise reasonable efforts to transport you and your baggage from your origin to your destination with reasonable dispatch, but published schedules, flight times, aircraft types, seat assignments, and similar details reflected in the ticket or Delta’s published schedules are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract. Delta may substitute alternate Carriers or aircraft, change its schedules, delay or cancel flights, change seat assignments, and alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket as required by its operations in Delta’s sole discretion. Delta’s sole liability in the event of such changes is set forth in Rule 22. Delta is not responsible or liable for making connections, failing to operate any flight according to schedule, changing the schedule or any flight, changing seat assignments or aircraft types, or revising the routings by which Delta carries the passenger from the ticketed origin to destination."

https://www.delta.com/content/dam/delta-www/pdfs/legal/contract_of_carriage_dom.pdf

 

[DandyDon]

Wait--they can't change your destination airport, can they?

I'm sure that if you speak with an agent, you can say that being rescheduled to a different airport doesn't work, and they should book you on flights to your original airport (even with ff/miles).

Oh, they can do whatever they want as Mr. Manfrenjensenden explained, but the thought of rerouting myself thru Cancun was mine. They have only one flight a day DFW non-stop to Cozumel, but more choices into Cancun. Going thru Cancun I&C, taking the bus, then the ferry would add more time, trouble, and expense - but I tried that thought to see if it'd get me there earlier. All it'd really get me is to the Cozumel ferry dock instead of a sardine van.

My original flights still operate, but my LBB-DFW leaves 1 minute later, arrives 9 minutes later, and even tho my DFW-CZM flight leaves 5 minutes later - there is not enough time for a legal connection. I might be able to insist on the original flights, but then a misconnection would be all on me.

 

[ReefHound]

Yes, they can. They guarantee nothing. Here's a paragraph from Delta's contract of carriage; other airlines will have similar language:

"Delta will exercise reasonable efforts to transport you and your baggage from your origin to your destination with reasonable dispatch, but published schedules, flight times, aircraft types, seat assignments, and similar details reflected in the ticket or Delta’s published schedules are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract. Delta may substitute alternate Carriers or aircraft, change its schedules, delay or cancel flights, change seat assignments, and alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket as required by its operations in Delta’s sole discretion. Delta’s sole liability in the event of such changes is set forth in Rule 22. Delta is not responsible or liable for making connections, failing to operate any flight according to schedule, changing the schedule or any flight, changing seat assignments or aircraft types, or revising the routings by which Delta carries the passenger from the ticketed origin to destination."

https://www.delta.com/content/dam/delta-www/pdfs/legal/contract_of_carriage_dom.pdf

Nothing in that paragraph allows them to change the origin or destination, though it allows them to change any and all parameters involved in getting you from that origin to that destination.

 

[Mr. Manfrenjensenden]

Nothing in that paragraph allows them to change the origin or destination, though it allows them to change any and all parameters involved in getting you from that origin to that destination.

Edited as you're correct on that. But the bigger point stands. Airline schedules can change after passengers book. That's included in that paragraph. They all also have force majeure provisions. My experience has been that airlines will generally try to accommodate if you're getting something different than what you thought you booked, but they're under no obligation to do so in most cases.

 

[Maverick17]

I think we all agree they have a lot of power and don't really worry too much about you, which is the main point.

But I believe ReefHound is correct. Stops in airline language are enroute stops, not the destination. The only time they change your destination is if the airport gets closed due to weather and they land somewhere nearby and allow people to take their own transportation from there; or they stop flying to that airport. In the latter case they will usually rebook you to that airport with another carrier or give you a full refund, not actually change your destination. Co-terminals, though, might be interesting, such as EWR and JFK, and if the carrier switched from one to the other that would be something I could see them trying to change for the passenger.

Anyhow, I think Don has the right mindset, now he has a bit of leeway to play with it and see what he can get from them that makes him happy.

 

[ReefHound]

"...and alter or omit stopping places..."

With "stopping place" being an intermediate stop. The destination is not considered a "stopping place". Thus, a point-to-point flight is called a "non-stop" not a "one stop".

The entire paragraph describes all the ways they can change the manner "by which Delta carries the passenger from the ticketed origin to destination".

 

[Mr. Manfrenjensenden]

The only time they change your destination is if the airport gets closed due to weather and they land somewhere nearby and allow people to take their own transportation from there; or they stop flying to that airport.

There are others. Continuing to excerpt from Delta:

"Except as provided above, Delta shall have no liability if the flight cancellation, diversion or delay was due to force majeure. As used in this rule, “force majeure” means actual, threatened or reported: (1) Weather conditions or acts of God; (2) Riots, civil unrest, embargoes, war, hostilities, or unsettled international conditions; (3) Strikes, work stoppages, slowdowns, lockout, or any other labor-related dispute; (4) Government regulation, demand, directive or requirement; (5) Shortages of labor, fuel, or facilities; or (6) Any other condition beyond Delta’s control or any fact not reasonably foreseen by Delta."

I'm not faulting Delta or any other airline by the way. We want to fly from one place to another and to do so we buy a ticket and agree to a host of conditions. That's the way the industry works. We're welcome to not agree to their terms and not fly. But if we do fly, it's on their terms.

 

[DandyDon]

or they stop flying to that airport. In the latter case they will usually rebook you to that airport with another carrier or give you a full refund,

Airlines don't rebook with other carriers much these days. Hardly at all. I could get a refund on my ticket I think, but no joy there. I still want to go, there are no better flights, and the lowest fares for the month are $541 - so I guess I should still be happy to make the trip for $20K even with the boring adventures in DFW.