Unacceptable Instructor Behaviors...

[GetDownScuba]

You have a right to feel that way, but I certainly don't. It's my opinion that most instructors are motivated by their desire to make their living by doing what they truly love to do. There's a definite lack of mentoring going on in our industry. In fact, our Instructor to Instructor forum was designed to facilitate that very thing. If you join the Divemaster or any of the Instructor groups (you have to show proof that you are), then you're automagically allowed access. There we get to talk about our students behind their backs with other professionals that can add insight and sometimes incite as to how to handle the situation. It's certainly helped me out. I teach a rather unique trim, buoyancy & control class which is really just a variation of my OW class. I invite any instructor who wants to see how I teach to either help me out with a class or let me take you through it mono y mono. Either way, there's no charge for instructors.

Is the Instructor to Instructor forum on a different site? I can't seem to locate it in Community.

 

[The Chairman]

Is the Instructor to Instructor forum on a different site? I can't seem to locate it in Community.

Nope. You only get to see it if you're a DM or higher and join the appropriate group.

 

[Youssef ElNahas]

Not part of instructing per se but the thing that pisses me off the most is instructors/guides not respecting the environment, holding corals and wrecks etc... The new divers won’t know any better and will make a habit of it themselves

Other than that you should never pressure the student. If I’m not comfortable doing a certain dive/particular skill/going to a specific depth then my instructor should not encourage you to until you’re 100% confident. (Also they should ideally be able to recognise this if it isn’t explicitly stated because sometimes the students won’t say anything out of embarrassment or peer pressure)

 

[kelemvor]

I don't like unduly negative or shaming threads, but I feel we should have a frank discussion about unacceptable behaviors by instructors. As a student, you have rights and expectations, but being new to the sport, you may or may not know where that line is. I think you have a need to know when your instructor is out of line.

To whit, this past ScubaBoard Invasion to Cozumel, @Moose met a couple of friends who were with another group. One of them was so excited that they were going to finish their certification. The next time Dan saw them the student was pretty distraught. Their instructor brought them down to 60 feet and asked them to clear their mask. It didn't go well. After the dive, two different instructors told them that they were the most difficult student they've ever worked with. Wow. I was pretty pissed at her instructors, though I didn't really tell her that. I just said, let me have a try. She was so anxious, that I could see ripples coming off her as she stood shaking in the pool. Wow. It took about an hour, but she's clearing her mask. However, she still has some work to do and has lost faith in her instructor. Hopefully, she and her fiance will make their way down so I can finish her course.

So, what was so bad? A couple of things and I'll list them.

• What was she doing in OW when she had never completed this skill in confined water?
  • Skills should be mastered in confined water before you proceed
• Where does a professional get off telling a student they were the "hardest"???
  • Creates unneeded anxieties
  • The instructors are the ones who failed: not the student!
  • It's nothing but an excuse for their laziness!
• Learning was subverted
  • Instead of preparing her to dive, they set her up for failure.
  
  No, I'm not talking about esoteric things like "no kneeling" during class. I'm talking about basic professional behavior and ethics. Mind you, I've been a witness to many, many classes in my time from the early seventies to the present and I've seen the good along with the bad. So what else should you expect or not expect? Here's my continued list (which may be edited as we discuss this).
  
  A Diving Student's Bill of Rights

• Fun
  • Your instructor should be encouraging
  • Your instructor should be patient
  • You should feel free to call a dive at any time and for any reason
    • With no repercussions
    • Yes, even in training
  • Bullying is not acceptable
  • Mocking is not acceptable
  • Classes can be thorough, challenging and still fun
• Safety
  • No student should ever be left unattended
  • No "trust me" dives
  • Adherence to standards
  • Appropriate class sizes for the environment
  • No overweighting students
  • All gear should be functional and serviced regularly
• Learning
  • Instructors should always set the example!
    • Monkey see: monkey do!
  • Skills should be mastered in the pool before OW dives
    • How to do the skill
    • When to do the skill
  • Adherence to standards
  • Trim and neutral buoyancy are not optional!
• Professionalism
  • Respect from your Instructor
    • No yelling or verbal abuse
      • Teach, don't yell
      • No demeaning remarks
    • Privacy
    • No inappropriate touching or advances
  • Dedication
    • Your instructor should be up-to-date in their skills and training methods
    • If a student, no matter the difficulty, doesn't quit, neither should the instructor
  • Ethics
    • Instructors should keep their promises and commitments

I could add that instructors should be excited and friendly as well as possess excellent diving skills, but that sort of stuff should go without saying.

A Student caveat: You are the most important key to learning how to Scuba Dive. Ultimately, your safety is up to you. If you don't feel comfortable with your instructor, the onus is on you to change that. Talk with them or fire them, just make sure you can trust and learn from them. Sure, it might cost you time and money, but it won't cause you injury or possibly your life. Take this seriously as your health and life depend on your choice of an instructor.

What did I miss? What don't you agree with? Anecdotal stories are more than welcome

From the perspective of someone whose entire family, even extended, are professional educators... It sounds to me like the original instructors just don't have the right temperament for teaching. Regardless of the material they are teaching SCUBA or cursive handwriting or mathematics. Or maybe they just weren't the right match for this student and that's all there was to it.

There is definitely such a thing as a bad student. Bad students are teachable, but it's much more difficult to do. Also, I'm not saying this person is one, just that there is definitely such a thing. However, you don't tell the student that - ever! It takes an exceptional educator to teach a bad student successfully.

"Standards violations" are something I have no business commenting on, and that's already been beat to death here anyway. As a former OW student I can tell you that I had enough trouble figuring out what the instructor wanted me to do... I would have never been able to determine what the instructor was supposed to have done him/herself. Agencies could fix that if they wanted, by publishing "da rules". They clearly don't want to.

 

[Neilwood]

From the perspective of someone whose entire family, even extended, are professional educators... It sounds to me like the original instructors just don't have the right temperament for teaching. Regardless of the material they are teaching SCUBA or cursive handwriting or mathematics. Or maybe they just weren't the right match for this student and that's all there was to it.

There is definitely such a thing as a bad student. Bad students are teachable, but it's much more difficult to do. Also, I'm not saying this person is one, just that there is definitely such a thing. However, you don't tell the student that - ever! It takes an exceptional educator to teach a bad student successfully.

"Standards violations" are something I have no business commenting on, and that's already been beat to death here anyway. As a former OW student I can tell you that I had enough trouble figuring out what the instructor wanted me to do... I would have never been able to determine what the instructor was supposed to have done him/herself. Agencies could fix that if they wanted, by publishing "da rules". They clearly don't want to.

They would be more easily enforced if all students knew what they should expect from the instructor and vice versa - which as you say would be achieved by publication of the standards/issuing to every student.

 

[wheeledgoat]

It's interesting how pilots have to undergo annual review, policemen have to qualify annually, likewise with other professions which could involve saving a life.

As a healthcare professional myself, I feel it worthy of pointing out that policeman's "annual qualilfication" is GROSSLY inadequate when you consider the authority and power their profession grants. In the wake of countless police shootings and general misconduct, it should be obvious that their accountability should be AT LEAST commensurate with your local doctor, nurse, or pharmacist... but truth is, it's NOT. I know I'm way off topic here but a nerve was struck when I saw "policemen" included in a group which they do NOT belong, i.e. one where they are being adequately monitored. /rant

 

[Doby45]

As a healthcare professional myself, I feel it worthy of pointing out that policeman's "annual qualilfication" is GROSSLY inadequate when you consider the authority and power their profession grants. In the wake of countless police shootings and general misconduct, it should be obvious that their accountability should be AT LEAST commensurate with your local doctor, nurse, or pharmacist... but truth is, it's NOT. I know I'm way off topic here but a nerve was struck when I saw "policemen" included in a group which they do NOT belong, i.e. one where they are being adequately monitored. /rant

LMAO!!!! As a LEO, not all agencies stop at an annual qualification, I personally qualify quarterly and the department requires every six months. If we are going to discuss deaths per profession, the medical profession kills more people annually than probably any profession in the world. Be cautious with your pious finger pointing.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

If we are going to discuss deaths per profession, the medical profession kills more people annually than probably any profession in the world. Be cautious with your pious finger pointing.

Shhh!!! So I'll contribute to going off topic, but those numbers are staggering/frightening, though I have not dug into all the causes, as some people just can't be saved, but some are due to mistakes by medical professionals.
Trends in Inpatient Hospital Deaths: National Hospital Discharge Survey, 2000–2010

 

[kelemvor]

Shhh!!! So I'll contribute to going off topic, but those numbers are staggering/frightening, though I have not dug into all the causes, as some people just can't be saved, but some are due to mistakes by medical professionals.
Trends in Inpatient Hospital Deaths: National Hospital Discharge Survey, 2000–2010

That doesn't seem surprising to me. Healthy people don't usually get admitted into hospitals, cosmetic surgery aside.

 

[Doby45]

That doesn't seem surprising to me. Healthy people don't usually get admitted into hospitals, cosmetic surgery aside.

We are not talking about sickly people simply dying, we are talking about malpractice.