Question about learning deco procedures

[Gareth J]

What is the first BSAC level where "Staged Decompression" is taught?

To answer sigxbill, BSAC Sports Diver is the first qualification where staged decompression is taught.
We have;
Ocean Diver - PADI OW (20m max)
Sports Diver - PADI AOW + Rescue Diver [1] (35m max) + Staged Decompression
Dive Leader - PADI DM (50m max)
Advanced Diver - No equivalent
First Class - No equivalent

We also have SDC (Skill Development Courses).
Rescue based
Seamanship based
Technical Diving

The other significant difference is that within the diving qualifications we have seamanship skills, chart work, navigation, boat handling, coxswain etc.

If you are seriously interested, have a look at
Core diver skills
Skill Development Courses

Like PADI, the Skill development courses also tick boxes on the next qualification.

One of the amusing things for me, is I used to have a PADI school locally. I used to DM for them on trips occasionally. But they also taught BSAC. A lot of their divers did the BSAC Diveleader course after Rescue Diver, because it gave them a staged decompression qualification.

Fundamentally, and a major difference from most American structures. The BSAC is a club based structure, where you join a club and receive training and mentoring from fellow club members. Good clubs can be excellent, bad clubs can be awful.


I started with PADI, then BSAC, later IANTD, and TDI.

John.

We are two nations separated by a common language. As Chris said, some American terminology could cause huge offence in the UK, and vice versa! We are quite forgiving with our American cousins, so we cut them some slack with their misuse of the English language [2].

You are correct that there is physics and terminology. What I was trying to say was that our terminology is also sometimes different.
As a further example, your American diving agencies use OTU's (Oxygen Toxicity Unit's), we use UPTD (Unit of Pulmonary Toxic Dose) - which is the medical term, which I believe is the same medical term in the USA.

Gareth


[1] In fairness there are Rescue diver is a bit more advanced, closer to our PRM - Practical Rescue Manager
[2] In fairness, a lot of American terminology and grammar is old English 1700's and 1800's.

 

[tbone1004]

d

I guess this thread is pretty narrowly focused on US dive agencies. Whereas in the CMAS system, decompression is a usual part of the rec diving curriculum. In the first course (CMAS*, like OWD) you learn already decompression tables and gas planning for decompression dives although dives are still within NDL limits. From CMAS** on, light decompression diving is usual. Their philosophy is rather that every dive is a decompression dive and the distinction between NDL dives and light deco dives is artificial, particularly for dives deeper than 20m. There's no CMAS equivalent to PADI Deep mandatory safety stop, it's considered a usual deco stop. CMAS Nitrox** (accelerated decompression with one stage similar to AN) is still considered a rec class and not in the tec curriculum.

Don't think US dive agencies, think RSTC dive agencies. Now they happen to be largely US-centric,, but not all of them and they certainly do have a global presence.

 

[Edward3c]

Yes BSAC was expelled for offering courses outside UK, competing with other CMAS members in their local regions. And there's still trouble today with this topic, for example with Protec and CMAS Baltic.
But since when does CMAS run their own courses in competition with national agencies? CMAS does not run courses; all training is delivered by local federations.

A 5 second Google search produced found this dive centre offering PADI/SSI/CMAS training. Nothing to do with the national organisation.

 

[Gareth J]

d

Don't think US dive agencies, think RSTC dive agencies. Now they happen to be largely US-centric,, but not all of them and they certainly do have a global presence.

I don't thing anyone (other than possibly the French [1]), would argue that PADI is the largest diver training agency both in the USA and internationally.

Gareth

[1] - Humorous statement - some slight historical rivalry between the British and the French. e.g. Battle of Agincourt, relatively recent history, we have had a few issue both prior and since. We weren't overly impressed when the French helped Washington in a little tax disagreement, that was slightly more recent .

 

[stuartv]

So it is only technical if there are gas switched now?

Yes, I personally would say that any computer that will not allow you to do a gas switch during a dive is not a technical computer.

 

[KenGordon]

In the first decades of dive training, everyone used the U.S. Navy air tables for dive planning.

Other navies are available.

 

[tbone1004]

I don't thing anyone (other than possibly the French [1]), would argue that PADI is the largest diver training agency both in the USA and internationally.

Gareth

[1] - Humorous statement - some slight historical rivalry between the British and the French. e.g. Battle of Agincourt, relatively recent history, we have had a few issue both prior and since. We weren't overly impressed when the French helped Washington in a little tax disagreement, that was slightly more recent .

no one likes the French so I doubt anyone would argue with that....

 

[KenGordon]

Yes, I personally would say that any computer that will not allow you to do a gas switch during a dive is not a technical computer.

So we can do technical (ie deco) dives with a non technical computer so long as it isn’t backgas only?

Or, a technical computer must allow gas switches but a technical dive might not?

These words, ‘technical’ and ‘recreational’ what do they really mean?

 

[DanielRJones]

Rec diving
Planned for everything going right

Tech diving
Plan for everything to go wrong

Especially in the 0-45m range as more than 1 agency allows deco using back gas for deco in recreational diving.

 

[tbone1004]

So we can do technical (ie deco) dives with a non technical computer so long as it isn’t backgas only?

Or, a technical computer must allow gas switches but a technical dive might not?

These words, ‘technical’ and ‘recreational’ what do they really mean?

I would argue that a computer that does not have gauge mode with average depth, and/or does not allow gas switches up to 100% O2 is not a computer suitable for technical diving because it doesn't give you requisite information to complete those dives. Without gauge you can't use tables especially if it locks you out like many of them do, if you don't have avg. depth you can't use ratio deco or min-deco *not a fan of either of those*, and without at least a second gas to 100% you can't use accelerated deco. Granted I don't think you should use those other computers anyway, but that's my opinion, those with Zoops will obviously beg to differ.....

I do not consider limited backgas decompression "technical" diving. Especially so if the dive can be completed within NDL in another algorithm. I.e. if buhlmann 100/100 is NDL and you set it to 30/70 and have backgas decompression, it's not technical diving, that's extended precautionary stops IMO. If you have a 30 minute O2 deco hang, then yeah you're in a "real" ceiling. Deco Planner says I can go to 100ft on EAN32 for 33 minutes without having to stop on 99/100. It says I have a 4min 20ft stop and 7 min 10ft stop if I drop that to 50/70. I don't consider that technical diving. Now I've never actually run that math before, but to me less than 10 minutes of backgas deco is pretty irrelevant and if you're running relatively conservative gradient factors like that, you can still blow most all of that deco and likely come up OK.