Argentinian Submarine Lost? News?

[Bob DBF]

For what it's worth, I understand the end comes very quickly in such circumstances although the spiraling/sinking down period prior to 'implosion' must have been horrifying!

The implosion of the USS Scorpion was estimated at 6000 kg of TNT from analyzing the acoustical event. The ARA San Juan being smaller and probably a shallower test depth would be less powerful, but even a tenth of that would be considerable.

If one were an observer onboard, one would have have time to be horrified. All sailors on board would be focusing all their attention on ending the casulty and saving the boat. That is what the selection and training is for, the ship is already sunk, the job is bringing it back up. Every submariner is acutly aware of what can happen to a submarine, the expression is that "it takes a crew to run a submarine, but only one man to sink it".

As a submarine sailor I participated in a number of casualties, one of which could have ended quite badly. My focus was on doing my job and solving the issue(s) at hand, doing anything else would be a waste of time, energy, and problem solving abilities. I liked that trait in my shipmates.




Bob

 

[scubafanatic]

The implosion of the USS Scorpion was estimated at 6000 kg of TNT from analyzing the acoustical event. The ARA San Juan being smaller and probably a shallower test depth would be less powerful, but even a tenth of that would be considerable.

If one were an observer onboard, one would have have time to be horrified. All sailors on board would be focusing all their attention on ending the casulty and saving the boat. That is what the selection and training is for, the ship is already sunk, the job is bringing it back up. Every submariner is acutly aware of what can happen to a submarine, the expression is that "it takes a crew to run a submarine, but only one man to sink it".

As a submarine sailor I participated in a number of casualties, one of which could have ended quite badly. My focus was on doing my job and solving the issue(s) at hand, doing anything else would be a waste of time, energy, and problem solving abilities. I liked that trait in my shipmates.




Bob

I've heard implosions can be pretty graphic, one of the 2 US nuke attack boats lost back in the 60's 'telescoped inwards' during it's implosion event.....it caved in on itself like a rapidly compressed spyglass, substantially shortening from it's original length. The atmosphere inside instantly superheats/ignites, akin to being compressed inside a piston engine, thankfully it's only for a split second as death is essentially instantaneous.

 

[Akimbo]

I've heard implosions can be pretty graphic, one of the 2 US nuke attack boats lost back in the 60's 'telescoped inwards' during it's implosion event.....it caved in on itself like a rapidly compressed spyglass, substantially shortening from it's original length. The atmosphere inside instantly superheats/ignites, akin to being compressed inside a piston engine, thankfully it's only for a split second as death is essentially instantaneous.

That is consistent with data collected on two diesel boats the US Navy intentionally scuttled in the early 1970s to study submarine implosions. The tests were conducted off San Diego and the boats were instrumented and monitored during descent. Some friends were on the dive team that rigged explosive valves on the surface ballast tanks.

I was told that a deep submersible inspected the wreckage (I can't remember if it was the Sea Cliff or Turtle). They could actually fly the submersible into the pressure hull which was wiped clean when internal bulkheads acted like steam pistons and drove the contents from one end to the other -- batteries, engines, galley, internal ballast tanks, everything but torpedos. I never saw the photos or videos.

This was after the loss of the Scorpion and K-129, which where located by the acoustic signals from their implosions recorded by the SOSUS network. I always suspected that they were more interested in studying the sounds the implosions made far more than analyzing the imploded structures of obsolete hulls.

 

[Bob DBF]

I always suspected that they were more interested in studying the sounds the implosions made far more than analyzing the imploded structures of obsolete hulls.

I'm with you, finding what you want is more important than how the submarine becomes debris, although it might come in handy later.

My hat is off to Dr. Craven, who developed the Bayesian search theory, and used the SOSUS data to triangulate the position and find the Scorpion. His book, "The Silent War", is a good read.


Bob

 

[Akimbo]

My hat is off to Dr. Craven

Dr. John P. Craven was truly a brilliant and creative guy. They also discuss his spearheading locating the K-129 in Blind Man's Bluff: The Untold Story Of American Submarine Espionage.

 

[Bob DBF]

Or as I see it, part of the untold story. Also a good read.


Bob

 

[Akimbo]

​

 

[AfterDark]

That is consistent with data collected on two diesel boats the US Navy intentionally scuttled in the early 1970s to study submarine implosions. The tests were conducted off San Diego and the boats were instrumented and monitored during descent. Some friends were on the dive team that rigged explosive valves on the surface ballast tanks.

I was told that a deep submersible inspected the wreckage (I can't remember if it was the Sea Cliff or Turtle). They could actually fly the submersible into the pressure hull which was wiped clean when internal bulkheads acted like steam pistons and drove the contents from one end to the other -- batteries, engines, galley, internal ballast tanks, everything but torpedos. I never saw the photos or videos.

This was after the loss of the Scorpion and K-129, which where located by the acoustic signals from their implosions recorded by the SOSUS network. I always suspected that they were more interested in studying the sounds the implosions made far more than analyzing the imploded structures of obsolete hulls.

Similar to what I read about how the USS Thresher imploded.

 

[Bob DBF]

I always suspected that they were more interested in studying the sounds the implosions made far more than analyzing the imploded structures of obsolete hulls.

The sound of a submarine implosion is more important information than the aftermath, except to a marine architect. Knowing what a sound, or lack of it, means is critically important in an environment where sound is the major source of information.