Regulator configuration

[Pablo Honey]

Points taken on the cave/wreck diving and on the octo clip not being completely reliable.
Regarding the risk of giving the wrong gas though, or the octo failing for whatever reason...aren't you just transferring the risk from the OOG diver to the "donating" diver? He/she will need to breathe out of something after donating and if it's not working or has the wrong gas...
Plus if the OOG diver yanks the primary out of the other's mouth, it's not exactly calm-and-rationality-inducing and you've now got two divers without air.
Alec Peirce's points about having one available for an OOG diver to just grab are resonating with me here. See also his reply to AustianReaper in the comments - I'd probably do the same as him vis-a-vis asking for a different buddy.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Get with an instructor that teaches tech diving. Don't go getting a gear set up based on what you think may work. A tech instructor will explain why you choose the configuration you do.
The other thing is choose your buddies carefully and don't dive with unknown quantities. If you don't know the person be leery of getting in the water with them.
Don't dive in groups or herds!
Dive with a buddy who you have practiced air shares with.
I've started to require my OW students to do S drills and practice an air share before every dive.
One mistake many new divers, including myself, made or make is buying a piece of gear with no idea of why they are doing it or how it will actually be in use.

 

[Tribal]

Ofcourse its not calm when they snatch it out of your mouth, but a person that panics will most likley not ask for it.
You have a bungeed back up under your chin so you can just grab that. Its backgas and it will be breathable, unless you have a hypoxic mix. No idea how they do it then, but i’m pretty sure once you get that far you will know it.

 

[rongoodman]

Regarding the risk of giving the wrong gas though, or the octo failing for whatever reason...aren't you just transferring the risk from the OOG diver to the "donating" diver? He/she will need to breathe out of something after donating and if it's not working or has the wrong gas...

You are indeed, which is the whole point. The donating diver isn't the one who's in a near panic looking for something to breathe, so is in a much better position to sort things out should a problem arise.

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

Get with an instructor that teaches tech diving. Don't go getting a gear set up based on what you think may work. A tech instructor will explain why you choose the configuration you do.
The other thing is choose your buddies carefully and don't dive with unknown quantities. If you don't know the person be leery of getting in the water with them.
Don't dive in groups or herds!
Dive with a buddy who you have practiced air shares with.

Come on. Just because they are an instructor doesn't make them good. A DIR reg setup doesn't have to wait until someone formally takes a tech class. A trusted and knowledgable diver (instructor or not) should be able to handle this topic.

Recreational divers that travel are going to be diving with unknowns, groups, and perhaps even herds. A practiced DIR reg setup can mitigate risk and if you see someone in need of help (as I previously mentioned what occured to me last week) your own personal risk is mitigated by having a superior regulator configuration.

Your buddy air share comment is good advice.

 

[RIHappyDiver]

@Pablo Honey, let’s stay out of the tech/wreck arena for a moment and just consider rec diving. There are untold number of holiday and recreational divers out there using Air II, which means they are donating their primary. Putting your back up under your chin on a bungee gets it to your mouth much easier than reaching for your inflator. Also, consider the fact that if your buddy is OOG they are probably holding their breath, which means they are floating. Reaching under your horizontal body for your octo is a lot more work than grabbing your primary, so primary it is. At that point you dip your chin and grab your back up between your teeth without your buddy right in your face at the end of a 24” hose.

 

[drk5036]

What I've generally heard is, it doesn't matter WHERE your donated reg is supposed to be, the OOG diver will ALWAYS end up stealing the reg from your mouth if they're desperate. Since you're "good" on air, you have the extra time to get your backup, and you know exactly where it is. A much better situation than the alternative.

 

[KenGordon]

What I've generally heard is, it doesn't matter WHERE your donated reg is supposed to be, the OOG diver will ALWAYS end up stealing the reg from your mouth if they're desperate

This is how myths are propagated.

 

[KenGordon]

Getting my first gear and working on the regulator configuration.

I was thinking of going with something similar to This configuration, but with the 2 regs reversed - I don't understand why they're using the long-hose regulator as the primary, since it would require the buddy who needs help to take the reg out of the other person's mouth, or have it donated. They can't just grab a clipped octo.

Wouldn't it be better for the diver to use the short-hose reg on the necklace as the primary and have the octo clipped in front as usual?

I was thinking of using a 22" hose to my primary on a necklace and a 40" octo under the arm and clipped in front.

Pretty new diver here (20 under my belt), so input on this or other configuration suggestions much appreciated!
I may get into tech diving, but for the foreseeable future, looking at single-tank recreational open water dives.
Thanks in advance!

As you can see a lot of people are saying “don’t do it like that, do it like this!” and pushing their preferred scheme.

At 20 dives you are still learning and I suggest doing whatever you were trained to do. That is probably some minor variation on what you are suggesting for yourself. In the unlikely event you were formally trained for a long nose and primary donate you’d not be asking this question.

A criticism is that the octopus often drags. Apparently divers who are so poor as to allow their octopus to drag will magically be transformed into ones happy to have a regulator stolen from their mouths without any problem.

Get a proper octopus holder. I use the silicone necklace type. They don’t fall out and put a big yellow thing attached to a yellow immediately next to regulator in the donor’s mouth. This makes the choice easy for the OOG diver.

Don’t clip the octopus off. In the Dive Rite configuration there is a clip at the second stage of the 40in hose. That is for clipping it off during deco ON ANOTHER GAS. In the event that a diver using that configuration had to donate during deco they donate the deco gas and switch to the secondary on the bungee. So at no point is the regulator which is going to be donated every clipped.

This is the sort of detail stuff you learn if you get taught to dive this way. People simply pushing a “do it my way” approach may or may not know these details, they are just people on the internet, what do they know? If you want to listen to them/us fine, but also find an instructor with a recognised agency to teach you how to actually dive the configuration.

What can possibly go wrong? With a proper long hose (not what you are considering) Divers Alert Network, Regulator Free-Flow Leads To Failed Buddy Breathing

You will probably find that a recognised course teaching primary donate will tell you to practice deployment at the start of each dive. I think they will also teach you to use a 5 or 7ft hose, not a 40 inch one, maybe there are agencies which explicitly teach that, I don’t know but I am sure some one will be along to tell us who they are in a minute.

If I am diving OC with experienced buddies in I use a long hose and primary donate. With inexperienced buddies I use a long hose and secondary take. I put the regulator in a place they can easily take it and I store the hose appropriately. I have been trained both ways.

If I am diving CCR it is always secondary take.

 

[Zef]

I have taken course by SSI, NAUI, and PADI, additionally I have assisted with BSAC...

...The SSI, NAUI, and PADI training mentality tends to be (not always) that an OOA diver will swim up to you giving the OOA signal and you will process this, grab your octo, and hand it off.

The problem with this is that it does not follow a real world scenario...in most training exercises the OOA diver takes a breath off their regulator and then simulates being out of air by giving the OOA hand signal....in the real world the OOA diver is not going to figure this out after taking a full breath but after exhaling and finding there is nothing left to inhale. This most likely will create a sense of urgency in all but the most experienced of divers and when the OOA diver swims over to you they will need air and it is thought that they will most likely grab the one from your mouth as they visually process without effort where it is and that it works.'

I mentioned the different agencies above because BSAC tends to teach differently...they do not hand-off the octo to the OOA diver, instead, upon seeing the OOA signal they teach to splay out to "present" the octo for the OOA diver to take on their own, at least that is how the local BSAC instructor I know teaches....I like this, but it still requires the diver to recognize and process the OOA signal.

Another issue is that where and how an octo is stowed varies and those stupid clips that attach at the hose tend to unclip....I see lots of inexperienced dives trailing their octo oblivious to the fact it is not where it should be at time of need.

In my opinion it is better to train for the worst case scenario of a diver ripping the reg out of my mouth in an urgent situation and me just switching to my octo which hangs on short hose under my chin...if I have the opportunity to present my reg to the OOA diver then great, but my setup is not reliant on that.

-Z