PADI Advanced Open Water: Did you learn anything new?

[Colliam7]

This thread is particularly interesting to me, as an Instructor, and helps me better understand what an AOW students may be expecting from the course.

Are these 5-dives supposed to be just basically an experience in new dive situation under instructor supervision?

Yes, that is the purpose. In fact, the overall offering was for many years covered by the broad title, 'Adventures in Diving'. It exposes participants to diving experiences more varied than the OW experience, through a series of 'Adventure Dives'..

I don’t think I learned anything I didn’t already learn through experience of diving more often. The more often you dive, it seems you naturally learn by trial and error yourself (ie buoyancy control on deep dives and ascents, natural navigation) and common sense and logic (ie flashlights and backups in the dark).

Possibly. The general idea behind AiD is that you learn in a more focused, and therefore efficient, manner. For example, if you do a night dive, you would logically think to bring a light. What kind of light would be better? What kind of lights are available? Would you (finally) learn that 'two is one, and one is none' by experiencing a light failure at night? Or, is it more efficient to be shown that before your first night dive? Experience is a great teacher, no doubt about it. And, as Nietzsche said, 'That which does not kill us makes us stronger.' But, experience can also lead us down a path toward extinction - if we learn to do things the wrong way, and keep doing them the wrong way, we may become poster children for Nietzsche's admonition.

Compass navigation was new to me, so that was a new skill. But for most divers I think they learn it in ow certification? And others could easily learn it from an experienced diver friend. It was like a 5-minute review of what I read in the aow manual, but to actually use it to find that coral, rock, and ascent line was a bit of challenge and quite fun!

And, that is a good example of what AOW is all about. Yes, we teach compass navigation in OW. But, it is rudimentary at beast, rather superficial in fact. A good AOW instructor, who uses a compass on a regular basis, will show you A LOT about compass navigation that you won't necessarily figure out for yourself. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean that every AOW course, and every instructor imparts that wisdom.

Am I supposed to go through any classroom time learning any kind of scuba science or whatever like I did in ow certification (ie Boyle’s Law)?

While there is an academic component, the course is primarily experiential - much less didactic work than OW. It is, as the name implies, a series of adventures.

I’m wondering if mine is similar experience as others in aow certification or am I missing out on anything?

When I took AOW, it was - in hindsight - a very poor course. I could have asked questions similar to the ones that you have posed. In fairness, I did learn quite a bit - that night diving scared the heck out of me; that a quarry at 75 feet is VERY cold; that nominal performance requirements can be met without the Instructor really helping the student learn (or even being in the water with the student on some dives). One of the things that I did when I became an Instructor is make an active decision to do things very differently, to make AOW a valuable, and enjoyable, and encouraging, experience.

 

[Divegoose]

Those were the topics covered in the manual. It has been a long time since I took the the AOW course, but if memory serves me correctly we did five dives. The dives consisted of the following:

1. night dive x 2
2. deep dive - this included some altitude calculations as we were diving at 5000 asl
3. underwater distance measurement and then run some compass courses
4. salvage / recovery - using a lift bag, raise a basket full of weights from the bottom

I will have to dig through my old log books to confirm.

Divegoose

I found my old log book with my advanced open water dives in it:

dive #1. distance measurement
dive #2. compass navigation - square and triangle
dive #3. first night dive
dive #4. natural navigation
dive #5. search patterns - circle and expanding square
dive #6. second night dive
dive #7. deep dive - 100 feet with safety stop - if I recall correctly there was a cylinder and regs staged on a line at the safety stop for those that needed it
dive #8. using lift bags to raise crate of rocks

These dives were completed in August 1985. I'm sure a lot has changed since then.

Dive safe !!

Divegoose

 

[boulderjohn]

I found my old log book with my advanced open water dives in it:

dive #1. distance measurement
dive #2. compass navigation - square and triangle
dive #3. first night dive
dive #4. natural navigation
dive #5. search patterns - circle and expanding square
dive #6. second night dive
dive #7. deep dive - 100 feet with safety stop - if I recall correctly there was a cylinder and regs staged on a line at the safety stop for those that needed it
dive #8. using lift bags to raise crate of rocks

These dives were completed in August 1985. I'm sure a lot has changed since then.

Dive safe !!

Divegoose

The main problem with using them as data is that they are the dives YOU did with YOUR instructor. There is no way of knowing how they relate to actual requirements.

• Dives 1, 2, and 4 are all part of the underwater navigation dive today. It can sometimes be hard to complete the requirements for that dive in one dive. Was that one official dive, with the requirements spread over 3 dives, or was it three separate required dives?
• Dives #5 and #7 are part of the search and recovery dive today. Were those two separate required dives then, or was it one required dive split in half?
• A night dive was required then, but two night dives were not. Why were two done? Is it possible that one was a required night dive and the second was a dive for a different purpose that happened to be done at night?

Finally, we simply don't know if your instructor was adhering to standards or simply going his own way on this. If I produced my log of the dives I did for my my OW certification and claimed they represented the standards of the day, it would be a total farce. They were not even close.

 

[Divegoose]

The main problem with using them as data is that they are the dives YOU did with OUR instructor. There is no way of knowing how they relate to actual requirements.

• Dives 1, 2, and 4 are all part of the underwater navigation dive today. It can sometimes be hard to complete the requirements for that dive in one dive. Was that one official dive, with the requirements spread over 3 dives, or was it three separate required dives.
• Dives #5 and #7 are part of the search and recovery dive today. Were those two separate required dives then, or was it one required dive split in half.
• A night dive was required then, but two night dives were not. Why were two done? Is it possible that one was a required night dive and the second was a dive for a different purpose that happened to be done at night?

Finally, we simply don't know if your instructor was adhering to standards or simply going his own way on this. If I produced my log of the dives I did for my my OW certification and claimed they represented the standards of the day, it would be a total farce. They were not even close.

Sorry but I don't have any concrete answers to your questions. You are right - there is no way of knowing how the AOW dives related to the actual requirements, especially since I was not privy to the course training standards.

As far as I knew, my instructor was following the standards of the day. I am sure he added some extra information and training, as he did in the Rescue and Divemaster programs, with the goal of making us better divers. I am sure he has long since retired from diving instruction. I have lost track of him over the years, so can't even ask him the questions you pose.

As I noted in my previous post, I am sure a lot of things have changed since 1985 Since I haven't worked with any OW or AOW classes since the late 80's, I am seriously out of the loop with regards to standards and requirements

Dive safe !!

Divegoose

 

[guahoo]

This thread is particularly interesting to me, as an Instructor, and helps me better understand what an AOW students may be expecting from the course.Yes, that is the purpose. In fact, the overall offering was for many years covered by the broad title, 'Adventures in Diving'. It exposes participants to diving experiences more varied than the OW experience, through a series of 'Adventure Dives'..Possibly. The general idea behind AiD is that you learn in a more focused, and therefore efficient, manner. For example, if you do a night dive, you would logically think to bring a light. What kind of light would be better? What kind of lights are available? Would you (finally) learn that 'two is one, and one is none' by experiencing a light failure at night? Or, is it more efficient to be shown that before your first night dive? Experience is a great teacher, no doubt about it. And, as Nietzsche said, 'That which does not kill us makes us stronger.' But, experience can also lead us down a path toward extinction - if we learn to do things the wrong way, and keep doing them the wrong way, we may become poster children for Nietzsche's admonition.And, that is a good example of what AOW is all about. Yes, we teach compass navigation in OW. But, it is rudimentary at beast, rather superficial in fact. A good AOW instructor, who uses a compass on a regular basis, will show you A LOT about compass navigation that you won't necessarily figure out for yourself. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean that every AOW course, and every instructor imparts that wisdom. While there is an academic component, the course is primarily experiential - much less didactic work than OW. It is, as the name implies, a series of adventures.When I took AOW, it was - in hindsight - a very poor course. I could have asked questions similar to the ones that you have posed. In fairness, I did learn quite a bit - that night diving scared the heck out of me; that a quarry at 75 feet is VERY cold; that nominal performance requirements can be met without the Instructor really helping the student learn (or even being in the water with the student on some dives). One of the things that I did when I became an Instructor is make an active decision to do things very differently, to make AOW a valuable, and enjoyable, and encouraging, experience.

Your post seems to reflect your avatar, oh master kenobi lol... Appreciate your answers breaking up my post and making direct answers to each questions posed! You answered all my initial queries.

Yes, I think current AOW seems a misnomer and “Adventures in Diving” seems much more appropriate. Not that I don’t trust my instructor, but was thinking he might’ve decided to forego any “teaching”, perhaps because he knew my dive history, since I’ve been diving with him every weekend beginning part of 2018. So was curious if others had more didactic experience. Before deciding to take aow, I actually thought it would be similar course format as my ow - classroom time followed with dive time cementing what was learned in class.

It’s obvious now through the much appreciated feedback from fellow scuba divers, as yourself, on ScubaBoard. Thanks again!

 

[rgdiver1]

Back when I was a very active dive master, I tried to attend as many AOW classes and weekends at local quarries as possible, whenever they were taught by a particular instructor who taught at the dive shop I was associated with. His AOW classes always had lots of value added information. I loved to be a part of those classes, and I always suspected that I learned even more than the students did.

 

[Bob DBF]

Before deciding to take aow, I actually thought it would be similar course format as my ow - classroom time followed with dive time cementing what was learned in class.

Actually, in the case of PADI, it should be more formal as the adventure dive can be used as the first dive of its respective specialty. My AOW instructor had a review of the book work, a lecture including additional information and discussion of the specialty dive, ending with a review of the dive plan before splashing. I believe he conducted the dives in that manner to show the complete specialty would be valuable, and fun, to take.


Bob

 

[60plus]

Regarding AOW or any other qualification, you are probably only going to realise your do not know enough when you are in difficulty or drowning. I would think the benefit of AOW or any other course is that your are experiencing new things, often with a higher level of risk, in the company of someone who should be able to get you out of trouble if things go wrong.

 

[wildbill9]

Well I almost hate to chime in but I will. AOW did not increase my knowledge base. I had been certified for 2 years before I sought out this. I had done multiple night dives, dove many times in 3 or 4 ft vis (navigation), done many dives at 70 to 100 ft, hit deco (manual calculations). Was I a dumb azz? Yep, took way to many chances and glad I survived, today I am much more cautious. The difference in perspective between 20 years old and 60 is enormous. My point is that experience is the true teacher, AOW will help shorten the learning curve but actual experience is the ultimate teacher. Go forth and dive more, my dive buddy of 35 years has her basic OW certification and is a much safer and better diver than my best friend, with less than 100 dives, who is a dive master. I still love diving after 40 years but see so many divers who are after a badge, this alone will not make you a better diver. Put what you learn into practice and when you are o!d and grey, like me, you can watch the youngsters dive and brag while you use less air, back up to take that perfect picture, never need your arms for control (skull), and still end ever dive grinning from ear to ear saying that was a fabulous dive let's do it again. And yes I expect to get totally flamed for this post. I look forward to when I can change my profile to 2000 plus dives. Peace, love and go blow bubbles. Bill ( the old but no longer bold diver)

 

[TMHeimer]

Well I almost hate to chime in but I will. AOW did not increase my knowledge base. I had been certified for 2 years before I sought out this. I had done multiple night dives, dove many times in 3 or 4 ft vis (navigation), done many dives at 70 to 100 ft, hit deco (manual calculations). Was I a dumb azz? Yep, took way to many chances and glad I survived, today I am much more cautious. The difference in perspective between 20 years old and 60 is enormous. My point is that experience is the true teacher, AOW will help shorten the learning curve but actual experience is the ultimate teacher. Go forth and dive more, my dive buddy of 35 years has her basic OW certification and is a much safer and better diver than my best friend, with less than 100 dives, who is a dive master. I still love diving after 40 years but see so many divers who are after a badge, this alone will not make you a better diver. Put what you learn into practice and when you are o!d and grey, like me, you can watch the youngsters dive and brag while you use less air, back up to take that perfect picture, never need your arms for control (skull), and still end ever dive grinning from ear to ear saying that was a fabulous dive let's do it again. And yes I expect to get totally flamed for this post. I look forward to when I can change my profile to 2000 plus dives. Peace, love and go blow bubbles. Bill ( the old but no longer bold diver)

I always found it interesting that at least with PADI, you have the opportunity to progress with AOW and other courses if you like. And that your OW cert. has a "recommendation" of 60' depth limit and that you are qualified to dive in conditions similar to those you were certified in. To my knowledge, there are no definite (PADI) "rules" to follow if you choose to just gain experience on your own and then branch out. For example, it's "OK" for you to exceed 60 feet if with a dive pro, or if you go gradually deeper as you gain experience. It's also fine to night dive if you go with someone experienced and are careful.
Then the thing about AOW with 9 dives vs. OW with 2,000 and the liability for charters.
I just find it interesting. I would guess it's the same with most agencies.