Nitrox class - no dives/dives?

[Marie13]

Do you mind if I use this in the real world sometimes please Marie13

I'll be appropriate with it and do it proud
Thanks

Have at it! Must be said with much sarcasm. Adding some profanity makes it even better!

 

[Magnus Lundstedt]

Who had a nitrox class that required dives? As far as I can tell, this might be be more of a non-US thing from the people who've said they've done nitrox class dives.

And why dives? It's not terribly complicated...once you know how to figure out your mod on the chart, analyze tanks, and set your computer for the specific %, it's just a matter of making sure you don't exceed your MOD on actual dives.

When I tock my PADI Nitrox cert in Sweden (my only PADI card BTW) I did not do any dives, but the divecenter that arranged the cource had dives as an option, and the extra cost was less than doing the same dives outside of the cource. Whit that in mind I think it is a good idea to do a couple of dives inside the cource, hey, more dives is always better.

 

[Uber Dave]

Ya...I did mine back in the late 90's! A lot more in depth than it is now!

 

[Manatee Diver]

2. The PADI course used to have long term O2 exposure tables as part of the course. The only question I missed on the 50 question test involved using that table. One thing I learned from that class was that to get into trouble on that table, you had to be doing a really, really serious set of dives. But that is not all. According to an email I go from PADI earlier this year, research after that indicated that if you are diving at the 1.4 standard, you can pretty much dive all day without a problem. That table was thus teaching something that was simply not necessary. Not only that, I learned not long ago that the NOAA O2 exposure tables is pretty much a wild guess--there was almost no science behind it when it was created.

For me the problem is that I came away with the impression that if I go beyond or even close to 1.6 I will spaz out and drown. Only to learn later on that it is similar to DCS there is an exposure component to it, and once you go beyond 1.5 the exposure limits drop dramatically.

And I calculate MOD all the time, since the tank marking procedures are a lot less formal when you own your own tanks. I've found it is more of a "Here is the tester, have at it, and see me in the lobby to pay once you've loaded up your tanks." If I come up something other than my usual 32%, I pull out my phone and do the MOD using the calculator.

Granted neither of these are huge deals, I just wish PADI taught this because overall the PADI Nitrox course felt like "I paid $175 for this?"

 

[txgoose]

In other words, people who rely on remembering and using that training are all too likely to make a mistake, and they are much better off looking things up.

Reading all of the nitrox info I can ahead of the class, I came across a chart that shows PPO2 and MOD for EANx mixes from 21% up to 40%. For a recreational certification it seemed incredibly valuable. I’ll be interested to see if a similar chart shows up in the SSI documentation when I take the class.

While I absolutely think that some topics can be dumbed down too much, I also think that this sport has a unique take on occasionally making things appear very complicated so as to protect the current business model.

 

[boulderjohn]

Granted neither of these are huge deals, I just wish PADI taught this because overall the PADI Nitrox course felt like "I paid $175 for this?"

This shows the level of transition in the subject, as can be seen in this thread.

In the mid 1990's, the annual Dive Equipment and Manufacturing Association (DEMA) banned anything dealing with nitrox at its annual show. They considered it too dangerous. During that era, entire agencies were born with the goal of teaching nitrox--think of International Association of Nitrox and Technical Divers (IANTD) and American Nitrox Divers International (ANDI). Then the regular agencies started teaching classes and offering certifications, and these were major classes with lots to learn--$175 would have been a bargain, even in the prices at the time. Then people gradually figured out that Nitrox was not the boogeyman everyone thought it was, and the courses started to get pared down. Today there are many threads on ScubaBoard in which people say that nitrox is such an easy thing that it ought to be included in the OW course.

Dive agencies, shops, and individual instructors are at different points along that line of change.

 

[boulderjohn]

Reading all of the nitrox info I can ahead of the class, I came across a chart that shows PPO2 and MOD for EANx mixes from 21% up to 40%.

Pretty much every place that sells nitrox has a chart like that hanging on the wall.

 

[Scuba Scott]

I just wish PADI taught this because overall the PADI Nitrox course felt like "I paid $175 for this?"

To be fair, PADI doesn't teach Nitrox, or any other course for that matter. Your instructor does. PADI just provides the training materials.

I always let my students know the minimum requirements and what additional information I am willing to teach beyond the minimums for the course. Last week I had a student take me up on my offer and we went through all the tables and the math and did every possible calculation for MOD, best mix, PPO2, EAD, O2 Exposure, etc. We did it both metric & imperial. She was then able to teach it to another student.

This is not even going beyond the scope of the PADI course. None of the extra material is included in the computer assisted version of the PADI Enriched Air Instructor manual but it is all in the RDP version of the PADI Enriched Air Instructor Manual.

PADI didn't rip you off. You just chose the wrong instructor for your expectations or maybe the two of you did not fully discuss your expectations. Most students are perfectly happy to just buy a Nitrox cert. You appear to be one of those students who actually want to learn something.

I should also add that any time you take a course and you feel you didn't get what you expected out of it you should discuss this with your instructor. I have had a lot of Nitrox students and maybe 1 in 50 wants to know how to do the math. I realize none would likely ask for more info if I didn't offer it but you need to understand it is still OK to ask your instructor to go more in depth if he forgets to offer.

 

[Scuba Scott]

2. The PADI course used to have long term O2 exposure tables as part of the course.

PADI still has it. There are two versions of the instructor manual and PADI still sells the tables. As far as marketability goes... one sells much better than the other so most instructors don't bother with the "hard" one.
PADI Instructors are allowed to offer either version or even combine both into one, which is what I sometimes do.

 

[Manatee Diver]

To be fair, PADI doesn't teach Nitrox, or any other course for that matter. Your instructor does. PADI just provides the training materials.

I took the PADI elearning, so the instructor just did the check test, and had me go through the motions of labeling tanks and setting my computer up.

I always let my students know the minimum requirements and what additional information I am willing to teach beyond the minimums for the course. Last week I had a student take me up on my offer and we went through all the tables and the math and did every possible calculation for MOD, best mix, PPO2, EAD, O2 Exposure, etc. We did it both metric & imperial. She was then able to teach it to another student.

See one, do one, teach one. I do that for a lot of training in my field.

Most students are perfectly happy to just buy a Nitrox cert. You appear to be one of those students who actually want to learn something.

I've actually felt the same about almost all my PADI training. Compared to the mandatory and optional training that I've been involved in other industries, PADI training seems very bare bones and extremely low stress. But I can't argue with their methods too much, compared to the amount of divers the deaths that could be attributed to lack of basic diving skills seems pretty low.