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When I first started diving the way I was taught to use the computer I had was to not let it go into the red. As well as don't go too far into the yellow. As long as it was in the green on the little graph on the side I would probably be ok.
Then I went to a different shop and instructor for tech training. Here is where I actually began to learn about the REAL risks of diving that were glossed over in the recreational training I received.
Computers accurately track NDL times based on the particular deco model they are using.
They do not accurately track your NDL times.
In order to do that they would have to be able to track
1 your physiology
2 level of fitness
3 hydration
4 age
5 workload you are experiencing
6 whether or not you have a PFO
7 any issues with your respiratory or circulatory system
8 how much sleep you had the night before
9 whether you smoke or not
10 family medical history that may predispose you to DCS
11 what Zodiac sign is dominant on that day (sarcasm yes, but in the case of some so-called undeserved hits, who knows?)

as well as a host of other variables.

Most of the models have been well tested and documented. They are just that, however, models. Some based on tests with high fitness level 20 something Navy divers and still have a measure of Wild A$$ Guess thrown in.

I have a 19 yr old student who I've been diving with for a few years now. No issues and she has dived all over the world thanks to her amazing parents and their jobs. This past Labor Day weekend she was on a seemingly benign dive well within the NDL's at school and got bent. Testing discovered an ASD - Atrial Septal Defect. Similar to a PFO but with a different cause.

"Much more common than an ASD is a congenital cardiac lesion persistent into adulthood called a patent foramen ovale (PFO). In simplistic terms, a PFO is the result of incomplete closure of atrial tissue, whereas an ASD is the result of complete absence of such tissue between the right and left atrial heart chambers."

She's since had successful surgery to correct it and got cleared to dive again beginning in January.

How far to push the NDL's is a highly subjective and personal decision that each diver must make. One based on an HONEST assessment of your acceptable level of risk, maybe your family's acceptable level of risk, your experience, training, physical condition, and of course - your supply of available gas should something go wrong and require mandatory deco.

I'm not willing to push the NDL's to the level I was ten years ago. If I'm thinking I'll come close it's just going to get planned as a more conservative mandatory decompression dive. Depending on conditions I'll push the level of conservatism up to make what would possibly be an NDL dive a mandatory deco dive to allow for the extra time off-gassing with higher O2 content gas.

SCUBA diving is an extreme activity and depending on the person, the "safe" amount of pushing NDL for one could be a serious problem for another.
 
My recollection is that the tables and hence the computer algorithms were developed with data from US military personel , so fittish , youngish men. Divers are less young and less fit and have other risk factors may want to aim to be more conservative than their computer advises.
Different algorithms have different origins in terms of research methodologies. Algorithms like the US Navy, Bühlmann, DCIEM, DSAT (PADI), RGBM, and others were all developed differently.
 
Most of my dives these days are below 120 and withing 1-2 minutes of NDL. I dont believe in deep stops so I ascend at a normal 30 FPM to 40. At 40 I really slow things down. At lest 6-7 minutes there, then up to 30, usually do another 6-7 there, I then spend at least 5 at the 25 foot platform. Then I take at least another 2-3 minutes to get to 15. Then 3 for the safety stop at 15. Then 1-2 minutes at 10. Then 1 minute at 5.... you get the picture. I think this slow ascent with extended times in the 30-0 foot range builds a very large margin of safety into your profile. I use 40/80 factors on my Petrel.

Regarding pre dive routine... starts the evening before. Since I dont drink alcohol that is not an issue. But I start hydrating.. The morning of I drink plenty of water, take my time packing my car without exerting myself. After the dies I lay low for the rest of the day.
 
Most of my dives these days are below 120 and withing 1-2 minutes of NDL. I dont believe in deep stops so I ascend at a normal 30 FPM to 40. At 40 I really slow things down. At lest 6-7 minutes there, then up to 30, usually do another 6-7 there, I then spend at least 5 at the 25 foot platform. Then I take at least another 2-3 minutes to get to 15. Then 3 for the safety stop at 15. Then 1-2 minutes at 10. Then 1 minute at 5.... you get the picture. I think this slow ascent with extended times in the 30-0 foot range builds a very large margin of safety into your profile. I use 40/80 factors on my Petrel.

Regarding pre dive routine... starts the evening before. Since I dont drink alcohol that is not an issue. But I start hydrating.. The morning of I drink plenty of water, take my time packing my car without exerting myself. After the dies I lay low for the rest of the day.
Hi @Landlocked123

So, you made up a very conservative ascent strategy that appears to take at least 20 minutes longer than my nonstop ascent from the same depth. You are certainly not diving a GF hi of 80. After diving near NDL at depth, how do you have the time to complete your protocol, aren't all the other divers back on the boat well before you? How does this affect the SI and your 2nd dive relative to all the other divers? I'm not arguing the safety, a straight GF hi of 80 would be plenty conservative and safe.
 
You are certainly not diving a GF hi of 80.
Or a GF lo of 40.

Despite saying that he does not believe in deep stops, this really is a classic deep stop strategy. He has inserted stops deeper than are called for in the algorithm he says he is using--and substantial ones at that.
 
Or a GF lo of 40.

Despite saying that he does not believe in deep stops, this really is a classic deep stop strategy. He has inserted stops deeper than are called for in the algorithm he says he is using--and substantial ones at that.

As it is a no stop dive, GF lo does not apply
 
Understood. I meant my settings were there. I dive at the local quarries with 2-3 dive buddies and we all do the same ascent profile...
 
Understood. I meant my settings were there. I dive at the local quarries with 2-3 dive buddies and we all do the same ascent profile...
Fair enough. Have you ever dived off a boat in the ocean with other divers? How did that ascent strategy work for you?
 
As was asked and no yet answered, this sort of super slow and conservative ascent would seem to be a pretty significant disadvantage. When everyone else is topside, warm and dry, relaxing and OFF GASSING fast, he is off gassing very slowly if not actually on gassing slow tissue.

This would seem to make the second dive a lot shorter or more aggressive with respect to decompression stress.

A extra slow ascent on the last dive of the day is different than one that proceeds a repetitive dive.
 
Well here is the thoughts of a old school diver..

I just finally started using a computer 2 years ago.. The whole point of using a computer is that it does the math for you.. If you're going to not trust it.. Then go back to tables and a bottom timer... I have a veo-3 and got a shearwater last March.. I still run tables in my head ( Don't think I'll ever stop the timer in my brain ) on every dive , but the computer is so much more information... When the computer tells you that a air change to a different gas would be better for you. That's pretty awesome...

When learning to fly aircraft., you're taught to trust your instruments..

Hell... I must be getting old and learning new tricks... Know what your doing and the numbers for the dive in your head, But trust your computer, It does math a whole lot better then you.

Jim...
 

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