What is the craziest "specialty" you have heard of that you know is actually real?

[LakeCountyDiver]

"PSAI is the only agency offering Narcosis Management® training down to 240 feet (73 meters). It is taught in seven different depth levels, allowing the diver choice of training depth. This Narcosis Management® course is taught on air, to better prepare divers for Trimix diving which requires the use of the less forgiving helium based gases."

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I've never heard of this course but the way you explain it that's downright good. First time I ever got narced I felt it bad. I was at 135 on air. I can see where having training dealing with it would make sense.

 

[Rollin Bonz]

I've never heard of this course but the way you explain it that's downright good. First time I ever got narced I felt it bad. I was at 135 on air. I can see where having training dealing with it would make sense.

I was just quoting from the link. I was just a little shocked that an agency would tout diving to 240ft on air was a standard of one of their courses. I realize it used to be no big deal, and (as others have pointed out) diving to 180ft on air may still not be a big deal to many, but diving to 240ft on air is typically frowned upon by today's standards. And to be designed into the course seems... suprising.

 

[dmaziuk]

But really, diving deep on air is not always the wisest thing do, and below 60 and pretending you'll LEARN to MANAGE narcosis ?

I'm not sure what your argument is: for PADI AOW you're supposed to go below 20 m and pretend you'll learn to deal with narcosis? At 60 you at least have a chance to get actually narced and learn what that feels like.

 

[dmaziuk]

I was just quoting from the link. I was just a little shocked that an agency would tout diving to 240ft on air was a standard of one of their courses. I realize it used to be no big deal, and (as others have pointed out) diving to 180ft on air may still not be a big deal to many, but diving to 240ft on air is typically frowned upon by today's standards. And to be designed into the course seems... suprising.

If you google for it, there's a thread on SB about them. Apparently they don't (didn't use to) give those certs out easily. Entirely unlike zombie eclipse specialty.

PPO2 at 66 metres is 1.6, just where CNS toxicity becomes the big concern. At 73 metres it's defined as "most individuals should tolerate 6-ish hours before developing mild symptoms", so it's high-er risk, but if you aren't particularly susceptible to oxtox, some 10-15 minutes shouldn't be that big a deal. And you'd have to be deco trained, of course, there's no NDL for that depth.

 

[Rollin Bonz]

If you google for it, there's a thread on SB about them. Apparently they don't (didn't use to) give those certs out easily. Entirely unlike zombie eclipse specialty.

PPO2 at 66 metres is 1.6, just where CNS toxicity becomes the big concern. At 73 metres it's defined as "most individuals should tolerate 6-ish hours before developing mild symptoms", so it's high-er risk, but if you aren't particularly susceptible to oxtox, some 10-15 minutes shouldn't be that big a deal. And you'd have to be deco trained, of course, there's no NDL for that depth.

I agree with all your math and statements. If you are going to dive to 240 on air, I think narcosis could easily become that "beating drum" that Kurson describes in Shadow Divers, leading to deadly mistakes. So, in that light, if you are going to dive to 240ft on air, the class would seem pretty legit...

But still, being a standard portion of an agency endorsed class... suprising

 

[BlueTrin]

I'm not sure what your argument is: for PADI AOW you're supposed to go below 20 m and pretend you'll learn to deal with narcosis? At 60 you at least have a chance to get actually narced and learn what that feels like.

I think you are supposed to learn to deal with narcosis only when you take the deep specialty if you go PADI, and then you’ll dive to 40m.

Before that you only read about narcosis in AOW. You would only experience narcosis in AOW if you get it at 30m and it is not the goal of the AOW dives.

Correct me if I am wrong as I am not a PADI instructor.

 

[Akimbo]

"PSAI is the only agency offering Narcosis Management® training down to 240 feet (73 meters). It is taught in seven different depth levels, allowing the diver choice of training depth. This Narcosis Management® course is taught on air, to better prepare divers for Trimix diving which requires the use of the less forgiving helium based gases."

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Currently, but not historically. Thousands of US Navy First Class Divers were certified to 285' (86.9M) on air, including me. Deep air diving preceded HeO2 training. The PPO2 limit was 2.0 ATA in those days. We definitely learned a lot about narcosis management, and there is a lot to it.

The Submarine F-4 was salvaged from 306'/93M in 1915, which led to the development of Helium Oxygen diving and the US Navy Experimental Diving Unit. It was very difficult, but they managed to get a very complex job done.

 

[JMBL]

I'm not sure what your argument is: for PADI AOW you're supposed to go below 20 m and pretend you'll learn to deal with narcosis? At 60 you at least have a chance to get actually narced and learn what that feels like.

Ok my point is : what does PSAI implies by managing narcosis ? If it means experiencing it and understanding the impairments and danger which go with it, why not. Although I still object on diving below 60m/200fsw. If it means making diving believe they will be able to get rid of the impairments by diving regularly deep on air, it seems like bogus thinking to me.

Hope my point is clearer now.

 

[LakeCountyDiver]

Ok my point is : what does PSAI implies by managing narcosis ? If it means experiencing it and understanding the impairments and danger which go with it, why not. Although I still object on diving below 60m/200fsw. If it means making diving believe they will be able to get rid of the impairments by diving regularly deep on air, it seems like bogus thinking to me.

Hope my point is clearer now.

I don't think there has ever been any implication that you can get rid of the impairments by diving that depth regularly. Just if you get to truly experience narcosis and you get to learn how to deal with it you are better prepared.

One simply cannot pretend to be narked and work to a solution you have to actually be impaired.

 

[Colliam7]

what does PSAI implies by managing narcosis ? If it means experiencing it and understanding the impairments and danger which go with it, why not. Although I still object on diving below 60m/200fsw. If it means making diving believe they will be able to get rid of the impairments by diving regularly deep on air, it seems like bogus thinking to me.

Possibly, one reasonable approach to understanding what they mean is to go to the PSAI website, and read the description of what they consider to be Narcosis management: 'Narcosis Management® is the objective measured in terms of keeping track of Depth, Air, Time and Awareness (DATA).'

Several technical diving courses offered by agencies other than PSAI emphasize similar skills - you need to learn to keep track of certain critical parameters, even while you are impaired. Situational awareness is a developed skill / practice. Recognizing signs of impairment is a necessary step in skill development.

PSAI has been doing this training for quite some time. It is neither whimsical nor - to paraphrase the thread title - 'crazy'. It is a very serious, substantive endeavor, to train divers to 'keep their wits about them', even while their sensorium is dulled.

for PADI AOW you're supposed to go below 20 m and pretend you'll learn to deal with narcosis?

Actually, that is not the case. For a period of time in the past, such an argument might have been made - the performance requirement for the Deep Dive in AOW was a 'timed task', performed at depth and at the surface, with the results compared to see if performance changed at depth. I suspect PADI staff realized that, if the 'minimum' depth for the Deep Dive (aka Dive One in the Deep Diver specialty) was only 60 feet, the likelihood of meaningful narcosis developing was limited. So, for the past decade or more, the primary task has been color recognition. And, colors do change sufficiently at 60 feet to make the task meaningful.