Blindly trust computers?

[Steve_C]

But as most divers are vacation divers being herded by DMs, I don’t think they are much at risk MOST of the time.

Depends on where you live. On the NC boats I see a lot of divers who are not herded by DMs. In fact that is most of the divers. Some of them are vacation divers or newer divers. Now some will hire a DM but I have had a number of insta-buddies who were not very experienced. And seen a number of pairs neither of who was very experienced.

 

[dmaziuk]

[THREAD HIJACK]
I admit to not having read the complaint (will read legal filings only when suffering from insomnia) but the press release I read made it sound like the issue was that Suunto was replacing failed computers with identical models having the same tendency to fail and not updating the product line, rather than repairing individual units.
[/THREAD HIJACK]

I bet they're not repairable, you can only replace or give money back. (If AL had crystal balls I bet they'd give those people money back with interest, on the condition they don't come back.)

You have to gather enough failures to make a statistic, and you need to expect the failures, before you start screaming at your suppliers and issuing product recalls.

I quoted hard drives before: with those you expect failures in batches, and they're sold by truckload, so you have both the numbers and the expectation. With dive computers, I am not sure you have either.

It could be worse: therac-25 nuked 3 people and slightly roasted 3 more that's documented, before they realized there was a pattern there.

 

[letterboy]

I bet they're not repairable, you can only replace or give money back. (If AL had crystal balls I bet they'd give those people money back with interest, on the condition they don't come back.)

You have to gather enough failures to make a statistic, and you need to expect the failures, before you start screaming at your suppliers and issuing product recalls.

I quoted hard drives before: with those you expect failures in batches, and they're sold by truckload, so you have both the numbers and the expectation. With dive computers, I am not sure you have either.

It could be worse: therac-25 nuked 3 people and slightly roasted 3 more that's documented, before they realized there was a pattern there.

Statistics can be made to say what the end user wants

But your point holds.

 

[Bigbella]

I have had three air-integrated computer failures, since the early 1990s -- two, at depths over 40 meters, both due to manufacturer's defects; and one, while doing a decent decompression stop, due to a sucky Duracell. During this time, I have also used tables, which still remain in my dive bag; analog pressure gauges and a simple bottom timer; so no one shat their 7 mm . . .

 

[divinh]

This thread could have been titled "Blindly trust SPG's?" Before the advent of SPG's, didn't divers keep track of their breathing and dive time, then if they find air lacking, pull on the J-valve for the reserve and end the dive?

Submersible Pressure Gauge (SPG)

How fundamental must diving be and what pieces of equipment can you trust?

 

[PfcAJ]

This thread could have been titled "Blindly trust SPG's?" Before the advent of SPG's, didn't divers keep track of their breathing and dive time, then if they find air lacking, pull on the J-valve for the reserve and end the dive?

Submersible Pressure Gauge (SPG)

How fundamental must diving be and what pieces of equipment can you trust?

You shouldn’t blindly trust an SPG either. Compare depth, time, and gas usage. Does your SPGs reading make sense based on your expected gas usage? If not, somethin’s up.

 

[divinh]

You shouldn’t blindly trust an SPG either. Compare depth, time, and gas usage. Does your SPGs reading make sense based on your expected gas usage? If not, somethin’s up.

Then the argument isn't limited to blindly trusting computers. It's blindly trusting any piece of equipment. Diving with computers aren't a problem, as the subject of this thread suggests.

 

[BRT]

You shouldn’t blindly trust an SPG either. Compare depth, time, and gas usage. Does your SPGs reading make sense based on your expected gas usage? If not, somethin’s up.

I try to think what my SPG will read before I look at it each time. In Mexico, the only place I dive with a divemaster, I almost always answer their "how much air" question before I look at the SPG. Then I check to make sure.

 

[JackD342]

I try to think what my SPG will read before I look at it each time. In Mexico, the only place I dive with a divemaster, I almost always answer their "how much air" question before I look at the SPG. Then I check to make sure.

Which is what we now teach in PADI open water. When asked, signal back, then check how close you were.

 

[rmssetc]

I bet they're not repairable, you can only replace or give money back.

Yep.

You have to gather enough failures to make a statistic, and you need to expect the failures, before you start screaming at your suppliers and issuing product recalls.

That's a good paraphrase of the description of suit to which I first alluded:

They decided to sue in California, claiming that both Aqua Lung and Suunto knew of serious defects in the computers but failed to issue any recalls and continued to sell the products. The lawsuit alleged that Aqua Lung knew from its own reports of permanent malfunctions in the equipment that it should have stopped selling and "repairing" the products; and that Suunto – which received the reports – should have stopped selling the gear when it was clear something was wrong.

Bitten by a Cobra
The lawsuit claimed Aqua Lung didn't actually repair the Suunto diving computers brought to its repair shops but simply replaced them – with the exact hardware and software that was already shown to be defective.

Suunto settles scary scuba screwup for $50m: 'Faulty' dive computer hardware and software put explorers in peril​