Removing and putting back kit underwater with integrated weights

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That wouldn't fly for me, I require my students to have both arms free of the BCD. I also require the skill done neutrally buoyant. I did just peek in the Instructor Manual and Guide to teaching and it does not state both arms need to be removed, but the CD that did my training says you haven't removed the BCD if you still have an arm in it and I agree.

For the OP, my initial suggestions are first focus on being neutral, give yourself a minute if you need to and don't rush that part. Once you begin removing go SLOW, hold the bottom of the cylinder as you bring it around to the front and keep the BCD touching your body.

1) You are teaching a skill to OW students that has essentially no practical use case. Students tend to exactly replicate what they are taught in class (a controlled environment) even when real world situations differ greatly. I would never rely on only two hands to maintain contact with a BCD.

I disagree with your method but how you choose to teach it is your business, since it is your liability.

2) The OP is using integrated weights. At best, without the BCD, OP is going to be neutral. Chances are, OP will be slightly to very positively buoyant.

To the OP, I would ammend my original suggestion to be-

Always keep one or more arms hooked through a shoulder strap of the BCD.

The sequence I would use is -

Start by loosing the shoulder straps. Then I would extract your LEFT arm first.
Then undo the waist buckle.
Then swing the entire BCD around in front of you from the right side (right arm still in shoulder strap).
Keep your right arm in the shoulder strap and use your left hand to control the BCD as needed.
Then, if necessary, hook your left arm through a shoulder strap.
Then, if necessary, remove your right arm and then hook it back into the shoulder strap.
You should now be hugging the BCD in front of you with the tank between you and the bcd.

Repeat in reverse to put back on.
 
When you do this, are you usually slightly negatively buoyant if you were to let go the BCD ? I.e. are you hanging from the BCD ?

Because I use a harness I’ll try what Trace is doing in the video as well.

Having you and your rig completely neutral, and not over weighted, when apart will only rarely happen. Your suit buoyancy changes with depth, and your BC is a handy place for weight higher on your body for trim. Some weight on a belt helps make the imbalance more manageable when your BC is off. I like my BC weight up a bit higher so I can put a bit more of my weight on my belt, without throwing off trim. With the BC off you are likely slightly positive, but it depends on you, BC, tank type and pressure, lead distribution, suit, and depth.

I've done it both over the head and rolling off the side with single tank BP/W in a 10/5 suit at 6-7'. I would play with both ways. A key is go slow. Be stable, then make a change (say one arm out), be stable, make a change (say shift off back part way), be stable, make a change (arm holding tank half off back), be stable, make a change ...

Go slow is key in the sense of when you do stuff underwater you should stay in control of yourself. So if you're no longer in control, stop, get control back, and then proceed. That is a key thing to take away from this exercise.

With your backplate, you should be able to 'chicken wing' the first arm out while it is stable on your back, then go from there rolling off the side.

Go slow, this is a good exercise in are you in control of your position in the water and comfortable with your gear in the water, not 'no one touch me or this whole thing falls apart' fragile there.

Edit: To finish redoning, with rig on your back find the bottom part of the free strap with your hand then slide that arm into it. Lay on the couch with just the plate on to play with how the strap can get twisted or stuck on wrist comp/compass.
 
Considering the buoyancy control expected of an OW student, and the 3-5 metre (if you're lucky) pool where buoyancy swings are the greatest, I have to wonder about the practicality of teaching all the skills in mid-water. I mean, it's how it should be taught, no argument, but maybe the course should start with teaching PPB to people who can barely swim. And then proceed to OW. Adjust duration and cost accordingly.
You hit on several of my favourite topics.
Yes, teaching the applicable skills (like doff/don, mask stuff, reg retrieval, etc.) neutral is something many advise now.
There are only 4-5 skills you'd do mid water anyway.
I think the benefit of this neutral teaching is that it simply means more time the students must be neutral, so good practice.
I don't think it does much to improve those skills (ie. I knew the head angle would be different when clearing a mask neutral
after learning it on the knees-- not rocket science).
Doffing & donning the unit neutrally may have to happen in only the rarest of situations--you get caught on something
half way up the wreck?
Your point about teaching PPB first to those who can barely swim is logical as opposed to adding those skills right away doing them neutral.
Related--why would someone who could barely swim be there anyway?
 
When you do this, are you usually slightly negatively buoyant if you were to let go the BCD ? I.e. are you hanging from the BCD ?

Because I use a harness I’ll try what Trace is doing in the video as well.

Next time I have access to the pool club is on the 3rd of Jan so I’ll try then.
With integrated weights you would likely be positive and with a weight belt you will likely be negative without your kit. As a unit (diver and kit) you should be neutral. If you let go of the bcd, you fail the skill. You should not be “hanging” from the bcd, it’s life support, so keep it close to you like your life depends on it.
 
1) You are teaching a skill to OW students that has essentially no practical use case. Students tend to exactly replicate what they are taught in class (a controlled environment) even when real world situations differ greatly. I would never rely on only two hands to maintain contact with a BCD.

I disagree with your method but how you choose to teach it is your business, since it is your liability.

2) The OP is using integrated weights. At best, without the BCD, OP is going to be neutral. Chances are, OP will be slightly to very positively buoyant.

To the OP, I would ammend my original suggestion to be-

Always keep one or more arms hooked through a shoulder strap of the BCD.

The sequence I would use is -

Start by loosing the shoulder straps. Then I would extract your LEFT arm first.
Then undo the waist buckle.
Then swing the entire BCD around in front of you from the right side (right arm still in shoulder strap).
Keep your right arm in the shoulder strap and use your left hand to control the BCD as needed.
Then, if necessary, hook your left arm through a shoulder strap.
Then, if necessary, remove your right arm and then hook it back into the shoulder strap.
You should now be hugging the BCD in front of you with the tank between you and the bcd.

Repeat in reverse to put back on.

I addressed this, then deleted it, quite frankly cause I don’t want to get into it.

Now I see post saying people should be taught on the bottom and not neutral. The quoted post saying the skill is useless and the second bullet point of the quote addressing simple physics that have already been covered.

Like most threads here it is now reaching the point of having no practical use.

Cheers
 
Seems simple. The PADI standard I think is to completely remove the BC, both arms. So the instructor must teach it that way or be in violation. Or, change the standards.
 
Related--why would someone who could barely swim be there anyway?

If you don't let them in you'll be out of business before the first rent check on the premises is due.
 
If you don't let them in you'll be out of business before the first rent check on the premises is due.
Agree. The question is why THEY would even think to start scuba.
 
IRL not classroom answer. Remove a weight from BC and secure it to yourself. I have been know to stuff it into the front of my wetsuit.
 
I learnt about this in a pool whilst practicing for my OW BCD removal. My BCD with integrated weights headed for the bottom with me upside down above it, even so I got back into it by holding it above me and rolling under it. In fresh water I dive with 6 kg on my belt and none in the BCD. In salt water I have 6 kg on my belt and 6 kg in my BCD. This means that the buoyancy of me (plus sit etc) is pretty similar to my BCD.
 
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