Am I progressing too fast?

[seeker242]

Do I appear to be diving recklessly... in the specific case of trying to make the jump from OW to OW+Fundies+Drysuit in a year?

No not even close! Many people do OW in a drysuit to begin with and it's no problem. And according to my fundies instructor the perfect time to do fundamentals is about 30-60 dives. It's better to do fundies earlier rather than later because then you won't have a bunch of bad habits to break. Fundamentals isn't a technical course, it's literally fundamentals of diving in general. It sounds like the person you were talking to basically doesn't know what GUE fundies actually is.

 

[tbone1004]

@hxtk what all of those guys said, but where in SC are you? Do you have someone you dive with or in your area that is a cave/technical diver that can help mentor you?

You aren't progressing too fast though. Fundies is not a "new" course in terms of where it will let you go. It doesn't let you go deep, doesn't let you do deco, etc. etc. All it does is give you the tools to practice properly. In life there is the saying of "practice makes perfect". In performing arts we preach that only perfect practice makes perfect.

With NAUI we are taught the importance of Thorndikes learning laws. I'm sure other agencies teach this, as all should, but it is hammered with NAUI. It is critical for all teaching, not just scuba.

• Law of Readiness-you certainly seem ready to learn
• Law of Exercise-this is where doing Fundies EARLY is important. The more you practice, the more natural something becomes. If what you practice isn't right, then before you can perfect the correct procedures, you have to break what you have already committed to. This has very hard for an instructor and can take a very long time
• Law of Effect-Make sure you shop for instructors. People quite all sorts of things because of bad instructors. The last thing you want is to be ready and eager to learn, then have an instructor ruin it
• Law of Primacy-it sounds like your first instructor set you on the right path. When students first learn flutter kicking, kneeling, vertical orientation, etc. it is very difficult for an instructor to break.
• Law of Recency-not really applicable for this
• Law of Intensity-also not really applicable to this, but this is usually the "butt-pucker" learning in scuba diving. You tend not to forget those lessons. Can also be positive, like when you have that one science experiment from elementary school that you never forget.

 

[chrisch]

if you are interested in caves GUE Fundamentals is a good start point and learning that way of diving is better sooner rather than later. Although I am very pro GUE you also need to see that other agencies can offer cave diving training. All will push you towards a Hogarthian system which is the core of GUE diving.

It is possible the person suggesting you are going too fast is not comfortable with the Hogarthian primary donate and long hose system. It is not a system that is essential for open water diving and perhaps this is what they are thinking about. If so then I have some sympathy for their viewpoint.

However if you would like to explore the overhead environment then I feel that the sooner you move to this system the better. You can (and should) do your AOW and Rescue certifications before moving to what you refer to as "technical" diving. Many cave systems do not involve great depth, but all of them are by definition an overhead environment. At some point therefore you should look at the cavern certification offered by a number of different agencies. (The PADI one is not always recognised so I would try another agency for that course)

At rescue plus cavern with 150 or hopefully more open water non training dives you can begin to decide whether you are ready to begin to explore overheads. Likewise you can begin to think about depth progression at that point. There is no rush the caves have been there longer than mankind and will outlive us I am sure. You need a good broad experience and a level headed approach to diving if you are to dive caves. They are unforgiving, a mistake can be your last - ever. Much better to make a few mistakes in easy conditions.

I started Trimix and then caves after many years and more than a thousand dives and found it hard. By starting early you will not have the same issue of becoming used to new equipment that I had. You still need the experience and the ability to consider if you have the core skills like buoyancy, but the Fundies training will give you an advantage I never had.

A lot of new divers spend too much time training and not enough time diving. Don't be one of them. However if you have a long term goal it makes sense to start from a position that will help get you to that goal safely. It will also save you a lot of wasted money buying the wrong gear.

Please don't rush. Please don't set a two year time frame or any other of the common mistakes people make. However, the courses you suggest fit well with the long term goal of an overhead environment. If you have the time, the money and the inclination go ahead and do them. You will get a lot out of Fundies right now, but it will change how you dive and how you think about diving. It is a commitment, not to be taken lightly.

 

[LakeCountyDiver]

You are not advancing too quickly from what I can tell. I have learned early on that *some rec instructors get upset when students are mastering skills *they personally did not teach them. Some also don't like students to already know things they are supposed to learn in an advanced class.

From my OW dives I know I wanted to go toward cave. So I practiced skills that we're requirements for tec/cave like perfect bouyancy, trim, propulsion kicks like the frog kick (frog kick really annoyed the instructor from my shop) and gear streamlining. Ultimately it drove a wedge so wide I had to move on.

Don't dive past your training (depth, environment,overhead, ect) but don't be afraid to master basic skills in the correct way. Use reels, dsmb, flags. Practice your trim. Practice all your kicks. There dives where you should never be bored. 15'safety stops are a great place to practice stuff.

 

[hxtk]

@hxtk what all of those guys said, but where in SC are you? Do you have someone you dive with or in your area that is a cave/technical diver that can help mentor you?

You aren't progressing too fast though. Fundies is not a "new" course in terms of where it will let you go. It doesn't let you go deep, doesn't let you do deco, etc. etc. All it does is give you the tools to practice properly. In life there is the saying of "practice makes perfect". In performing arts we preach that only perfect practice makes perfect.

With NAUI we are taught the importance of Thorndikes learning laws. I'm sure other agencies teach this, as all should, but it is hammered with NAUI. It is critical for all teaching, not just scuba.

• Law of Readiness-you certainly seem ready to learn
• Law of Exercise-this is where doing Fundies EARLY is important. The more you practice, the more natural something becomes. If what you practice isn't right, then before you can perfect the correct procedures, you have to break what you have already committed to. This has very hard for an instructor and can take a very long time
• Law of Effect-Make sure you shop for instructors. People quite all sorts of things because of bad instructors. The last thing you want is to be ready and eager to learn, then have an instructor ruin it
• Law of Primacy-it sounds like your first instructor set you on the right path. When students first learn flutter kicking, kneeling, vertical orientation, etc. it is very difficult for an instructor to break.
• Law of Recency-not really applicable for this
• Law of Intensity-also not really applicable to this, but this is usually the "butt-pucker" learning in scuba diving. You tend not to forget those lessons. Can also be positive, like when you have that one science experiment from elementary school that you never forget.

I'd rather not say exactly where I am in SC publicly for the sake of not doxxing myself, but I'm reasonably certain I already know who you would recommend. I took OW through that shop and they introduced me to the instructor I plan on using for fundies.

 

[BlueTrin]

I'd rather not say exactly where I am in SC publicly for the sake of not doxxing myself, but I'm reasonably certain I already know who you would recommend. I took OW through that shop and they introduced me to the instructor I plan on using for fundies.

Do you dive twins by the way ?

 

[hxtk]

Do you dive twins by the way ?

Not yet; that's in the plan for after I can dive at a fundies level in a drysuit.

 

[BlueTrin]

Not yet; that's in the plan for after I can dive at a fundies level in a drysuit.

Do you aim for a particular pass, rec or etc, or are you just happy with anything as long as you learn ?

Only asking because I am doing Fundies in April, so I am curious since we both have about the same # of dives and decided to go for Fundies

 

[hxtk]

Do you aim for a particular pass, rec or etc, or are you just happy with anything as long as you learn ?

Only asking because I am doing Fundies in April, so I am curious since we both have about the same # of dives and decided to go for Fundies

I'm specifically not aiming for a tech pass, as I won't be taking the class in doubles. I'd like to earn a rec pass, but I won't feel the class was a waste if I don't.

 

[BlueTrin]

I'm specifically not aiming for a tech pass, as I won't be taking the class in doubles. I'd like to earn a rec pass, but I won't feel the class was a waste if I don't.

Same here, when are you doing Fundies ?

Feels like we are alter egos from each side of the Atlantic