13 year old diver dies - Oahu, Hawaii

[Landau]

The PADI standard for Discover scuba also has a maximum depth of 12 metres / 40 feet - not sure if where he was found was at the same depth as the dive was conducted, but 18m is too deep for Discover Scuba

 

[lowflyer]

Sad does not fully describe this tragedy!

It's not stated whether this 13 y.o. had already completed "Confined Water" instruction before heading out on the dive boat. Confined Water can be done in the ocean but at a maximum depth of 20 ft. That means that the floor is 20 ft. or less (thus the word 'confined"), not just the dive depth. A DM can do the Confined Water instruction but only if he is a Discover Scuba Diving Leader, which has requirements beyond basic DM.

Open Water, which is not required to complete the Discover Scuba Diving Program, has a maximum depth of 40 ft. and the first OW dive can only be supervised by an Instructor.

In all cases the leader must evaluate dive conditions ahead of the dive to ensure a safe dive and position himself "so that you or a certified assistant can make immediate physical contact with, adjust buoyancy for, and render assistance to, participants."

I'll leave it to others to decide if standards were met.

 

[Esprise Me]

For PADI only an instructor is allowed to conduct a first dive for an open water DSD with a ratio of up to 4 to 1. An assistant instructor or DM can then conduct a second dive with a ratio of up to 2 to 1.

I'm surprised to learn this. My then-boyfriend and I did a Discover Scuba Dive on Catalina Island maybe a decade ago, and I could've sworn we each had a dedicated professional--not sure if it was a DM or instructor, but I felt very safe having the undivided attention of someone who knew what he was doing. I assumed that was always how it was done. Is it common for DSDs to take place with a 4:1 ratio?

 

[lowflyer]

I'm surprised to learn this. My then-boyfriend and I did a Discover Scuba Dive on Catalina Island maybe a decade ago, and I could've sworn we each had a dedicated professional--not sure if it was a DM or instructor, but I felt very safe having the undivided attention of someone who knew what he was doing. I assumed that was always how it was done. Is it common for DSDs to take place with a 4:1 ratio?

In Confined Open Water or Open Water it is 4:1 for an Instructor. Can add 2 if a certified assistant is helping. In a pool it is 8:1

For a DM who is a Discover Scuba Diving Leader in Confined Water it is 2:1, 4:1 in a pool

Don't know what the usual class size is throughout the industry.

 

[jjardin]

The PADI standard for Discover scuba also has a maximum depth of 12 metres / 40 feet - not sure if where he was found was at the same depth as the dive was conducted, but 18m is too deep for Discover Scuba

I wasn't on this dive, but I've done this dive with this Op a number of times (e.g. to check out equipment or with a newer unsure diver). From my experience its typically in a shallow crater--my log says my average depth was 27/28 ft and max depth on the sand about 38. Lots and lots of sea turtles which makes it really interesting for newer folks.

They do get a light current here--perhaps he swam off somewhere deeper or got pulled out by the current during or after he experienced trouble. This part of the bay usually seems fairly docile--especially compared with a mile or so away which can be harrowing at times.

The other thing I noticed was the mass inexperienced of folks can be somewhat overwhelming for the staff...one dive I went on seemed to have an entire family reunion of 20 or 30 folks some BIG, lots of little kids, etc on the Barge (which is the plywood looking thing next to the boat the cops are standing around on in the video, which looks like the "Sea Fox") ...I don't really buy into the discover diving concept.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

DandyDon,
Thank you for brining these events to our attention. It is a sad but important service that you provide to the diving community. Hopefully we learn from the stories you find. You have probably saved many lives.

Ditto on your thoughts

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Excuse me? This child was on a Discover dive, meaning he was not trained and certified?! I bite my lip to keep quiet about training and certifying children as young as 10 to Junior level, but taking a 13 year old on a Discover dive in the ocean upsets me.


And the child was in a group lead by one DM or Instructor, not even one-on-one? I guess the parents signed up for this on assurances from the operator, and the operator goes along with agency standards, but it stinks.


Now look! Even if the operator went along with weak agency standards, once they got to the chosen site and found that - the operator/DM or Instructor should have canceled or at least searched for a safer site. This was all much too risky.

agreed on all points. A discover scuba trip with average visability stated by people on the dive of about 10 feet is scary by itself for many newly certified divers. For a first experience I can see adults panicking. Add on that its a 13 year old and the current was strong and he got pulled or swept away from the group wow. And whoever was diving with him saw him get carried away and lost site of him and that person likely not certified either....

I am having trouble not blamestorming right now but I wont do that.

I personally would not let my 13 year old son non certified diver go on a group dive like that. I would have to have a 1 on 1 ratio with a divemaster and even then I would have to be there with him also. But then again when I was getting certified for OW there was a certified father and the son was 11 years old and getting certified and the father wanted to do the dive to 60 feet and the instructor said he would not take the 11 year old below 40 feet deep and did not. Father wasnt happy about it.

 

[tarponchik]

Same experience in Raja, Dan_T. Was there in December on a LOB. The guides went out first before every dive to check conditions. On the very first dive of the trip they went out, came back and said, "we're changing sites, current is too strong". This one hits so close to home for those of us who teach, have kids or just love scuba and hate to see these tragedies.
Rob

You don't have to go this far away. I was on a boat ready to dive NC wrecks around July 4th, 2007 but our dives were called off on that bright sunny day. The DM checked couple of sites, the currents were too strong, so we headed back. They said this was the 1st such case in 5 years.

 

[yle]

I'm surprised to learn this. My then-boyfriend and I did a Discover Scuba Dive on Catalina Island maybe a decade ago, and I could've sworn we each had a dedicated professional--not sure if it was a DM or instructor, but I felt very safe having the undivided attention of someone who knew what he was doing. I assumed that was always how it was done. Is it common for DSDs to take place with a 4:1 ratio?

The 4 to 1 ratio is a maximum... instructors are required to use their best judgment, considering conditions and all over relevant factors, to use an appropriate ratio.

At Catalina (I'm in So Cal also) I would think 1 to 1 is pretty typical... it's colder water, the wetsuits are thicker, the DSD participants are more likely to have comfort issues that will need attention. And the dive park at Catalina gets very deep very quickly. In contrast, the warm clear water of the Caribbean is a bit more comfortable... DSD participants frequently wear just swimsuits and a typical dive site might be 30 feet max, with a level bottom. So a 4 to 1 ratio in these conditions might be more common.

 

[JackD342]

A couple of items to add. So far, they just add to the questions I would want to ask.
News update with a little more history:
Company faces safety questions after dive accident leaves 13-year-old visitor dead

DSD description from the operator's website:
Discover Scuba Diving Courses - Island Divers Hawaii

Sounds like they start the DSD in confined water, not in a pool. I would be interested in what they are considering confined water. (basically, should be pool-like conditions, and these skills should start in an area shallow enough to just stand up)
And that second Fish 'n Dive course doesn't sound like anything I have heard before. Do some skills on the anchor line, and then descend?!? May be poorly worded or poorly understood by me, but that description would have concerned me before this incident happened.

Edit: Apparently it was poorly understood by me. See correction in following post(s).