13 year old diver dies - Oahu, Hawaii

[Wookie]

The family has lawyered up. Company faces safety questions after dive accident leaves 13-year-old visitor dead

 

[tursiops]

And that second Fish 'n Dive course doesn't sound like anything I have heard before. Do some skills on the anchor line, and then descend?!? May be poorly worded or poorly understood by me, but that description would have concerned me before this incident happened.

The skills-on-a-line option is right there in the PADI IM:
If participants will go on an open water dive, and shallow
water for skills practice is inaccessible, an instructor
conducts the skills session from a boat, dock or other
surface support station by using a descent line, horizontal
bar or platform that is within 2 metres/6 feet of the
surface. The ratio is 1:1 when using the descent line option.

 

[JackD342]

The skills-on-a-line option is right there in the PADI IM:
If participants will go on an open water dive, and shallow
water for skills practice is inaccessible, an instructor
conducts the skills session from a boat, dock or other
surface support station by using a descent line, horizontal
bar or platform that is within 2 metres/6 feet of the
surface. The ratio is 1:1 when using the descent line option.

I stand corrected. My depth of familiarity is biased towards local pool skills work, never have opportunity to do DSD in the real world. I'll read up on that one more later. Still raises my eyebrow though...

 

[tursiops]

I stand corrected. My depth of familiarity is biased towards local pool skills work, never have opportunity to do DSD in the real world. I'll read up on that one more later. Still raises my eyebrow though...

I've done it while DMing/Instructing in Hawaii. That shop (no longer around) would do a 2-tank dive, and after the mandatory flip-chart briefing we would take the DSD folks 1-on-1 down the mooring line to do the intro skills while the boat was tied off for the first (deep) dive. Then we'd all join in for the 2nd dive location (shallow). It was comfortable and not hurried, because you had the whole first dive in which to get it done.

 

[JackD342]

I've done it while DMing/Instructing in Hawaii. That shop (no longer around) would do a 2-tank dive, and after the mandatory flip-chart briefing we would take the DSD folks 1-on-1 down the mooring line to do the intro skills while the boat was tied off for the first (deep) dive. Then we'd all join in for the 2nd dive location (shallow). It was comfortable and not hurried, because you had the whole first dive in which to get it done.

Maybe you will find something else I am missing. This seems to have identified for me a disconnect between learning skills in a DSD, and learning them in a formal OW course. It appears that the requirements are less stringent on the DSD, as I don't find any reference in the OW course allowing that "inaccessible shallow water" exception.

General Standards: (definition of shallow)

Shallow Water
Water shallow enough in which to stand.

OW "pool" skills:

Underwater in shallow water:
4. Breathe compressed air by breathing naturally, without breath-holding.
5. Clear a regulator using both the exhalation and purge-button methods, then resume breathing from it.
6. Recover a regulator from behind the shoulder.
7. Clear a partially flooded mask.
8. Breathe from an alternate air source supplied by another diver for at least 30 seconds.

 

[tursiops]

Maybe you will find something else I am missing. This seems to have identified for me a disconnect between learning skills in a DSD, and learning them in a formal OW course. It appears that the requirements are less stringent on the DSD, as I don't find any reference in the OW course allowing that "inaccessible shallow water" exception.

General Standards: (definition of shallow)

Shallow Water
Water shallow enough in which to stand.

OW "pool" skills:

Underwater in shallow water:
4. Breathe compressed air by breathing naturally, without breath-holding.
5. Clear a regulator using both the exhalation and purge-button methods, then resume breathing from it.
6. Recover a regulator from behind the shoulder.
7. Clear a partially flooded mask.
8. Breathe from an alternate air source supplied by another diver for at least 30 seconds.

Not really a conflict, just different. DSD is less anal, except for supervision ratios. It allows for a scuba experience shallow, just not in shallow water. The good news is it avoids the temptation for the student to stand on the bottom....

 

[Jcp2]

Could the boy swim?

 

[Colliam7]

In all cases the leader must evaluate dive conditions ahead of the dive to ensure a safe dive and position himself "so that you or a certified assistant can make immediate physical contact with, adjust buoyancy for, and render assistance to, participants."

I'll leave it to others to decide if standards were met.

In the other cases where something like this has happened on a Discover Scuba OW dive, the conclusion has always been that the Instructor failed to adhere to standards. Stating this is NOT a matter of blamestorming - I wasn't on the boat, and I don't know what exactly took place in this case. But, such an outcome is usually the harsh reality.

That conclusion (Instructor failure to adhere) becomes essentially the default position because of the wording in the PADI Instructor Manual:

You must apply continuous and sound judgment before, during and after the dive. It’s your professional responsibility to conduct a risk assessment by evaluating variables such as water conditions, temperature, visibility, water movement, entries and exits, ability of participants, certified assistants available, your and your assistant’s personal limitations, etc., to determine what ratio will fit the situation — reducing the ratio from the maximum if needed. Take into account changing variables and your ability to directly supervise and observe participants. Reassess during the dive.

The bottom line interpretation - If you exercise sound judgement this should not happen. If this happens, you didn't exercise sound judgement. It is the Instructor who makes the call on the conditions. If a diver becomes separated, because of current, or poor visibility, or from panicking, and for whatever reason gets away from the Instructor, by definition that Instructor violated standards which require the application of continuous and sound judgement. It may not sound right, or reasonable, but that's the position that PADI, and any other agency for that matter, will usually take.

Over the years, there have been several threads on SB, usually starting after a DSD event such as this. And, the sad truth is that in virtually every case that went to litigation, the Instructor was ultimately determined to have been at fault.

Personally, I have elected to NOT conduct any DSD Open Water dives. From my perspective, the risk is simply too great. But, I teach with one Instructor in particular who has done hundreds of them, safely. He is a generally conservative Instructor, and always ensured that he didn't find himself in such a situation. I also think he has been fortunate.

 

[Jiminy]

The family has lawyered up. Company faces safety questions after dive accident leaves 13-year-old visitor dead

Noticed this phrase in the article.

"In 2011, an amateur but certified diver went missing on an Island Divers tour and his body was never recovered"

Thread about it
Missing Diver off of Kahala, Oahu, Hawaii

 

[jjardin]

Sounds like they start the DSD in confined water, not in a pool. .

My daughter's husband did this a few weeks ago--the confined portion was done in the owner's pool. Can't say where these guys had confined water.