The eternal question... Neoprene or Trilam drysuit?

[Storker]

Some people say trilam is better than neoprene for very cold temperatures. In Italy temperatures in the lakes tend to be much lower than in the sea for several reasons. In summer visibility in the lakes is very low, so mostly lake dives are done in full winter. Lakes are at the very north of the country, water temperatures on average are lower than in other places. Some lesser lakes are not at sea level but up in the mountains for example Lake Lavarone is at 1.079 m of altitude.
So the idea would be that while neoprene can suffice in most conditions, for lake dives at very low temperature trilam could be better. I see anyway that you don't seem to agree with this

I've dived in water down to 3-4 degrees C in both neoprene and trilam. I prefer my trilam for that kind of temps, but that's because I have room for a really thick and warm undersuit under my trilam, while my neoprene suit is very snug and doesn't allow sufficient undergarments to stay nice and warm. And its socks doesn't allow as thick wool socks as my trilam's softboots do.

It's not so much a question of material as a question of fit. If you want a small, easily manageable bubble, IME neoprene allows for a tighter fit than trilam does. But if you go for a snug suit, you can't fit as much insulation between you and the suit.

 

[EireDiver606]

It's not so much a question of material as a question of fit. If you want a small, easily manageable bubble, IME neoprene allows for a tighter fit than trilam does. But if you go for a snug suit, you can't fit as much insulation between you and the suit.

A proper fitting customized trilam will have a small bubble. I’ve heard from multiple divers and GUE instructors that trilam is easier to control buoyancy and trim.

 

[Storker]

A proper fitting customized trilam will have a small bubble.

You still need thicker undergarments under a trilam than under a neoprene suit, so there will be more air that can move. OTOH, it's pretty difficult to fit dryglove rings on a neo suit. And in really cold water, drygloves are a blessing, so that's another reason for preferring a trilam suit.

I have dived both types, and IME both have their advantages and their disadvantages. Some prefer one, some prefer the other, for good reasons. We all put different emphasis on different properties of our gear. I have clubmates who have switched from trilam to neoprene and prefer that, and I have clubmates who have switched from neoprene to trilam and prefer that. My preference depends on the conditions I dive under.

I’ve heard from multiple divers and GUE instructors that trilam is easier to control buoyancy and trim.

Why? It's contrary to my experience, at least when it comes to trim. I can stand on my head to get a shot if im in my neoprene suit and have no issues getting back to horizontal. If I tried that stunt in my trilam I'd have to work quite a bit to regain proper trim. For buoyancy, I really can't see that I've noticed a difference.

 

[Bruce Justinen]

I am going to try to respond to some of the misconceptions in some of these posts and I want everyone to know that I mean no harm but I have personal experience in diving most of the suits mentioned in this article. I have had a CF 200 and a FUSION.

So here goes. A Trilam is NOT warmer in cold water, it will always be colder because it is relying on the undergarment ONLY for its thermal protection. A neoprene drysuit has 1. the air inside the suit, 2. the undergarment itself and the air it contains, and 3. the suit thickness of neoprene. Layering is always a more effective way of delaying loss of heat. So there are three different factors contributing to the divers thermal protection.

I am not trying to convince those of you who are in love with your Trilam suit to abandon it, sell it for loose change and go buy a SEASOFT neoprene suit. What I am saying is that there are too many people who dismiss neoprene suits out of hand without knowing what they don't know. For example, most of you don't know that we use a very special zipper called the SUPERSEAL that we introduced to North America almost 20 years ago and we are experts at installing and using it. IT IS back mounted and will allow you to take it on and off YOURSELF. See this video on YOUTUBE. The first one is short, the second is a little longer.


You will see that we do not do what everyone does. A lot of you would find a SEASOFT suit to be a revelation and a dream to dive. But if you cannot get paste the biases of the mind you will never find out. I have actually built this company over 35 years by NOT doing what everyone does. Watch the video and let me know what you think.

Bruce
SEASOFT SCUBA

 

[lexvil]

Tell me more about this zipper

 

[Bruce Justinen]

Don't read this without watching at least one of the videos.

The zipper is made by Ti Zip of Germany. Most of you are familiar with the MASTERSEAL which is basically a plastic version of a brass zipper and has not had a very successful entry into the drysuit community. We were never taken with it and have never put one in any of our suits.

Almost 20 years ago were we experimented with a new zipper a new company called Ti Zip made called the SUPERSEAL. It is very difficult to install but we figured out how to do it after a billion try. The SUPERSEAL is a plastic zipper that brings two hybrid rubber strips together when the zipper is closed both on the inside and outside of the zipper. The zipper is thus on the inside of the four strips to some degree and protected during your dive.

The zipper when lubricated with silicone grease is really easy to open and close and self-entry and exit is a breeze. The tough part is putting it into the suit. It took us years to perfect it which is why there are only 2 or 3 of us in the world who use this zipper. We made some early mistakes but we learned and now we are confident in our ability to get it right every time.

There is a similar zipper used in semi-dry suits called the WATERSEAL, it has a different backing but the zipper part works the same.

IMPORTANT: When you put the zipper across the back you allow the suit to maintain its stretch throughout the torso and this gives the suit its incredible comfort and freedom of movement. THIS is real-self entry!

By the way SEASOFT has won every single comparison test we have ever been involved in against either shell suits or neoprene suits. AND we are almost always the least expensive suit as well. Go figure!

 

[Bearcat11]

I am not trying to convince those of you who are in love with your Trilam suit to abandon it, sell it for loose change and go buy a SEASOFT neoprene suit. What I am saying is that there are too many people who dismiss neoprene suits out of hand without knowing what they don't know.

Do you have any demo suits you’d be willing to send out for people who might be interested or those who dismiss them to try out?

 

[fish149]

Either is fine, if you're flying alot fo rrioa. As they weigh less and dry much quicker

 

[NAM001]

I use a trilam. it is very forgiving when you gain or loose some of that beer belly. the rest of the reasons of controlled undies and compression aspects are valid also.

 

[Bruce Justinen]

Bearcat:

The #1 request we get is for DEMO drysuits. Our drysuits are so different from others that people want to try it before they buy it and I can't blame them. Its just logistically impossible to do. All I can tell you is to talk to someone who has one.

Bruce
SEASOFT