Anti-Fogging Treatments for New Masks. (a comparison of techniques)

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The one thing that baffles me - because I have no rational answer.
Thanks! Easy to attempt to replicate that observation. I will try.

I so love your tagline (below). I used to work with a room full of them and so loved it. Twisting their tails a bit, but not disparagingly so. :)

Experts are people that are just as stupid as you and me.
They just have more experience screwing up
but there are always new mistakes they haven't tried yet.
 
Based on a suggestion from one of the SB members on a previous discussion of this topic, I bought Micro-gloss liquid abrasive.I believe it is popular in the aviation world. Anyway it did a better job of cleaning the mask than toothpaste and I recommend it. I still use anti-fog but it has made a big positive difference.

I just looked at the specs 1 micron abrasive crystal and approved by USAF to clean aircraft canopies...seems like a solid set of specifications. 1 micron is pretty small cant see it leaving any visible scratches
 
...What would YOU like to see tested...

ScubaBoard members come from Amazing backgrounds and work places.

It would be really exciting to find one that uses a 3D optical profiler for glass/micro smooth surfaces such as the Zygo NewView 9000...NewView™ 9000 3D Optical Surface Profiler (Profilometer)
This would give you your starting profile of glass surface roughness. The amount of roughness is a leading contributor or fog formation in dive masks. The cleaning is what both smooths the roughness and also puts a film on the rough surface to make the fog droplettes more of a sheet of water rather than a bumpy layer of droplettes.

If a board member had access to such a profiler, it would give you a tremendous start to quantify the mask treatment effectiveness since different masks will have different roughness.
 
Most of the non-gel toothpastes contain very fine abrasives like aluminium oxides, calcium carbonate, and silica.
I still favor cerium oxide, works for me. Been looking into this while @MAKO Spearguns is waiting to hear from the manufacturer.

OK, so an intensive review of past experiences came up with this:

salvaging an old INON lens - how to clean the glass?
Toothpaste, really?
Dremel: XS-Scuba Mask lens material - scratching?

Looks like we have some agreement...

here is a vid:

 
Far from me getting in the way of good science, and I'm all for a good theoretical discussion when its too cold to dive outside, but for the average joe, this might get them too energized. Soon we'll be having new divers cleaning their masks with flamethrowers and chainsaws. I'm having Mythbusters flashbacks.

FWIW, I've used cerium oxide to buff scuffs out of dome ports. It works great, but it will strip the anti-reflective coatings for sure. It's way more than is needed.

Bringing it back to the practical, because it just isn't that hard:

1. What is important for anyone is a good fitting mask. Lots of divers bubble around the edges of their masks and don't even know it. The mask isn't flooding, they are just exhaling a little through their nose and it bubbles out the top of the mask. That leads to fogging - it is a constantly refreshed stream of warm humidified air. A better fitting mask that is a tad more resistant to leaking bubbles, combined with awareness by the diver not to breath out of their nose, will go a long way to limit the problem. If you're a persistent fogger, try a few mask off drills, getting comfortable breathing underwater without any mask and you may find that your fogging problem goes away as you get better at isolating your nose breathing from your mouth breathing.

2. A new mask is not that hard to clean. I've flamed, toothpasted, sea buffed and toothbrushed them -- and it all works. What seems to work BEST for me is to clean the entire mask, not just the lens, with a mild soapy something. Nothing harsh, but get the oily stuff off everything. Then go to work on the inside of the glass. As I said before, I've found a Sonicare toothbrush to be a great tool, but you can use a finger. It just takes longer. Don't skimp on the time. Get the whole inside with something mildly abrasive like whitening toothpaste or sea buff. You shouldn't need to flame, but you can if you want. Just be careful around the silicon and don't plunge the thing into cold water afterwards. But, this is a last resort for me and is no substitute for the other cleanins because you cannot safely flame the coating along the edges where the lens meets the silicon. With a electric tooth brush, the whole process takes 5 minutes. Done.

3. In terms of what works in the water to prevent or minimize fogging, for reasons I don't understand it seems to depend on the person, despite the fact that the physics ought to be the same for all of us. Spit, baby shampoo, sea gold, sea drops, etc. Whatever works best for you. Personally, for me sea gold works a little bit better than baby shampoo, but shampoo is fine 99% of the time.

4. Be careful about sunscreen, lotions, etc. All of that stuff will lead to fogging and if it's on your face, you can count on it migrating to your glass and then you're done. I generally sunscreen my face with something good at night and then just wear a hat on the boat, saving the sunscreen until after the dive - but, I have pretty sun-resistant skin. Just try to keep it away. Also, freshwater lakes that are alkaline, like many quarries, tend to strip away defog. A couple of flooding drills at our local training lake and it's fog city.
 
Mako, if you call to ask what, also ask why they cannot just clean it for us prior to leaving the factory.
If you take a mask that has been successfully cleaned and will not fog and put it in a plastic bag for a few months it will need cleaned again.
 
I used sea gold on my new framless, but haven't used them in the water yet. So I'll be following this post.
 
Perhaps a bit of explanation at this point.

I have a unique opportunity to test new mask cleaning. In my previous life, I was in-house support to many research teams. I am no stranger to highly conflicting and strongly held views.

So I'll be explicit. Experimental design, Review and Acceptance/Acquiesence of the test procedure, Testing.

We are in the experimental design part. Free-for-all. Many posters have already provided very valuable input. All of them, in fact.

What would YOU like to see tested or why do you think that this is a waste of time and resources?

n=?
 
for the average joe, this might get them too energized. Soon we'll be having new divers cleaning their masks with flamethrowers and chainsaws. I'm having Mythbusters flashbacks.
I'd like to think that this is more like Cathy Rogers...
<Drumroll> 1.
Which, to me, is infinitely better than S.W.A.G. I know that you 'get it' and are just busting my ass. No problem with that, it keeps things honest.
If you take a mask that has been successfully cleaned and will not fog and put it in a plastic bag for a few months it will need cleaned again.
It has been said that nature abhors a vacuum. IMHO, nature abhors a clean surface even more.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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