My journey towards the three stars (3*)

[Edward3c]

The risk assessment for the day’s diving should have got you to think about how divers could be assisted exiting the water if conditions deteriorated.

Shore cover could have thrown a rope, something I’ve used a few times.

 

[Storker]

The risk assessment for the day’s diving should have got you to think about how divers could be assisted exiting the water if conditions deteriorated.

Shore cover could have thrown a rope, something I’ve used a few times.

Very good point, and thank you for pointing that out.

Just FTR, we had a rescue swimmer and a bucket rope available. I was aware of the option of calling for assistance, but I hadn't decided on what to do before the situation was resolved. So I like to believe that we had covered most of the bases. As I said there was no emergency, even though the situation could have become uncomfortably sticky if it had involved a fairly green diver.

I admit that we should have done a better job at assessing the weather conditions and what could realistically happen. But given that we did things by the book, we were decently covered.

 

[Edward3c]

Very good point, and thank you for pointing that out.

Just FTR, we had a rescue swimmer and a bucket rope available. I was aware of the option of calling for assistance, but I hadn't decided on what to do before the situation was resolved. So I like to believe that we had covered most of the bases. As I said there was no emergency, even though the situation could have become uncomfortably sticky if it had involved a fairly green diver.

I admit that we should have done a better job at assessing the weather conditions and what could realistically happen. But given that we did things by the book, we were decently covered.

Being a 3* diver isn’t about doing things ‘by the book’, but demonstrating how you normally approach diving. I undertake risk assessments whenever I go diving; be it fun, a course, training, just 2 of us or a group. A 3* Diver is a role model.

You’ll also find the planning skills come in handy in other parts of you life.

Great to read your story.

 

[Storker]

Being a 3* diver isn’t about doing things ‘by the book’, but demonstrating how you normally approach diving.

I somewhat agree, somewhat disagree.

In an ideal world, a proper and competent risk assessment rules. However, as we're all fallible it might be a good thing to start by doing things by the book. Because the book has been written by a bunch of people who know more about what can go wrong and how than I'm able to know. So while a proper risk assessment should be performed, it might be a good idea to keep an eye on the book. Because even at 3* level, you don't know what you don't know.

But yes, we messed up on that one. We should have done a better risk assessment before splashing. Even if we could allow for some laxity since everyone involved was decently experienced and not much prone to panic if the crap should somewhat hit the fan. A good learning experience.

And I totally agree on the role model point. It's bothered me since I certified OW that some of the more experienced divers I've met seem to be a bit über-macho. Even when fairly recently certified I met buddies who seemed to be surprised I wanted to do a formal buddy check. Unless you're more than averagely sure of your own abilities and training, that will affect your practice as you dive post-certification. Good thing for me I'm more than averagely arrogant...

But that situation provided a valuable learning experience, and I like to believe that I'll be more diligent in my pre-dive risk assessment in the future. I also learned something about buddy contact on the surface.

 

[dmaziuk]

Sidestroke comes with almost-as-powerful-as-breastroke kick and you can paddle with one hand while holding stuff in the other. Typically, timing your kick/pull to the surf, body-surfer style, should get you in close.

This is of course a theoretical should, I wasn't there and have no idea if it'd've been a would in that particular case.

 

[Wingy]

Sidestroke is my go to stroke. I find it the absolute easiest for me especially if doing a diver tow. As an Aussie living on the beach It was always the best way to herd up a pair of 2yo boys. I don't know why this isn't a more popular choice.

 

[Dan_P]

I apologize in advance for being a party pooper here, and want to make clear first that I applaud seeking new/different input in/to diving, as is the case here!

However (again, sorry in advance):

Personally, I think air/nitrox diving to anywhere over, say, the mid-thirties metres on air/nitrox should be illegal for an instructor or agency, but that 56m during course activity is absolutely irresponsible.

Almost on par with the buddy-line as a solution to lack of awareness.

With that said, I really can’t hold it against CMAS or other amateur groups - they’re amateurs, and shouldn’t necessarily be expected to know any better.
If I get an amateur bricklayer to build my house, it might come crashing down on me - that’s the name of the game.

The real problems, though, are that 1) a massive bulk of professionals in the scuba industry are on the chase for the lowest barrier of entry, thus leaving the general level in such a miserable state that holidaying kids pass for “pro’s” and really are no better than amateurs, and
2) certifying organizations aren’t even obligated to have an insurance, and many, including the biggest, can’t find an assurance company on the planet willing to underwrite them (imagine that in a driver’s license setting).

If 90% of licensed bricklayers were **** at their job, who could blame anyone for hiring an amateur?

 

[Germie]

@Dan_P, you take trimix at 30.2m?

There is not stated that the 56m must be done in a course. In my country it is max 30m, and then you get the 56/57m cert ('brevet international'). Maybe you also don't like this.

I agree that 56m on air is deep and for some too deep. BUT: there is no proof that there happen more accidents on air than on trimix, no stats are available. And there is no proof that in France and Italy where cmas is quite popular (in France there is a law that you are allowed to dive on air to 56/60m) causes more accidents or incidents. There are no statistics that proof this. Even not in the 'deep' air courses given by technical agencies. Or in the recreational 'deep diver' specialty.
And at the end, you can decide yourself what your maximum depth on air is, it is only you and your own responsability. Even cmas doesn't say you MUST go to 56m on air. And every diver can get bent.

With that said, I really can’t hold it against CMAS or other amateur groups - they’re amateurs, and shouldn’t necessarily be expected to know any better.
If I get an amateur bricklayer to build my house, it might come crashing down on me - that’s the name of the game.

What you state about 'amateurs' in cmas (or other amateur groups) is really denigrating about this agency. I agree that the level of instructors overall (so not only cmas) can be higher, but to state that in cmas 'amateurs' shouldn't know any better is denigrating. There is a lot of knowledge within cmas. The only point is you don't agree with their way of teaching diving. Is a padi instructor as worse as a cmas instructor if it is an 'amateur' because his hobby is teaching and his work is in the office?
From what I see: cmas teaches in clubs not worser or better than in a commercial dive center. The 'amateurs' teaching in cmas mostly do it voluntary. But with a lot of effort and fun and knowledge. Even within cmas there are commercial divecenters and instructors.
But the solution is easy: if you don't agree with cmas, go to another agency and if you don't agree all, found your own.
This topic is not the place to **** on other agencies. This topic is about the way to become a safe and capable cmas 3* diver and the differences between countries (maybe some with lower standards). And I like to read about others where it is teached different from the way in my country.

 

[Edward3c]

I apologize in advance for being a party pooper here, and want to make clear first that I applaud seeking new/different input in/to diving, as is the case here!

However (again, sorry in advance):

Personally, I think air/nitrox diving to anywhere over, say, the mid-thirties metres on air/nitrox should be illegal for an instructor or agency, but that 56m during course activity is absolutely irresponsible.

Almost on par with the buddy-line as a solution to lack of awareness.

With that said, I really can’t hold it against CMAS or other amateur groups - they’re amateurs, and shouldn’t necessarily be expected to know any better.
If I get an amateur bricklayer to build my house, it might come crashing down on me - that’s the name of the game.

The real problems, though, are that 1) a massive bulk of professionals in the scuba industry are on the chase for the lowest barrier of entry, thus leaving the general level in such a miserable state that holidaying kids pass for “pro’s” and really are no better than amateurs, and
2) certifying organizations aren’t even obligated to have an insurance, and many, including the biggest, can’t find an assurance company on the planet willing to underwrite them (imagine that in a driver’s license setting).

If 90% of licensed bricklayers were **** at their job, who could blame anyone for hiring an amateur?

CMAS do have professional instructors, there just not in the commercial game.0

 

[Storker]

Personally, I think air/nitrox diving to anywhere over, say, the mid-thirties metres on air/nitrox should be illegal for an instructor or agency, but that 56m during course activity is absolutely irresponsible.

Please tell me where can you read about instruction dives to 56m on air.

Let me remind you about something I wrote in post #1:

With a 3* cert, you're formally qualified for light backgas deco and depths down to 56m (1.4 bar pPO2). The national Diving Associations can limit that further; up here the depth limit for 3* is 40m. Just as well, I don't think it's a very good idea to go to 56m on air. In fact, I prefer to stay shallower than 40m as well.

Let's also look at this logically. According to our tables you can't even bounce to 56m without incurring a deco obligation. The regulations clearly state that neither the instructor nor the student are allowed to go into deco at any point of the dive. This is the relevant bullet point in the syllabus:

Dykking skal ikke utføres under forhold som hindrer direkte oppstigning til overflaten.

(There should be no diving under conditions preventing a direct ascent to the surface).

The instructor is neither allowed to go into deco, nor to go deeper than 30m during instruction dives. Which is why the exam dive is conducted as a simulated decompression dive. The dive is planned to min 25m/max 39m, and the plan may involve enough bottom time to incur a minor deco obligation. But since no diving under conditions preventing direct access to the surface is allowed, the conducted dive has to be to a shallower max depth and/or a shorter bottom time to stay within NDL. But even though the actual dive is a no-deco dive, we're supposed to ascend as if we had incurred a deco obligation (i.e. according to the simulated dive).

I really can’t hold it against CMAS or other amateur groups - they’re amateurs

Well, now you're just trolling, aren't you?